[gibsonm]

What do you propose? A series of underpasses for the BRT lanes? That would cost quite a bit, and complicate the stations.

No. The busway will pretty up the street and shave a marginal amount of travel time. If it's cheap then might as well do it. It won't be rapid transit though. I still think RER along the Milton line with an added station at Cawthra should happen, with or without this busway.

 

[afransen]

No. The busway will pretty up the street and shave a marginal amount of travel time. If it's cheap then might as well do it. It won't be rapid transit though. I still think RER along the Milton line with an added station at Cawthra should happen, with or without this busway.

Part of the purpose of the Dundas BRT is to get people to either Milton of Lakeshore GO stations.

 

[sixrings]

Part of the purpose of the Dundas BRT is to get people to either Milton of Lakeshore GO stations.

Sorry How would the Dundas brt get people to either of those stations since neither are on Dundas.

 

[afransen]

Through connections at GO stations using branching service. Check out the IBC. Concept 3 shows connections at Oakville GO and Dixie GO. Possibility for Cooksville, too.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regionalplanning/projectevaluation/benefitscases/2020-08-17-Dundas-BRT-IBC-Final-Draft.pdf

 

[drum118]

Will this thing actually be used? Seems like the kind of thing that one of those wheels trans buses would work best with, I mean...you'd have a few people on each bus, maximum I would imagine? Maybe 12 tops. Only because of COVID would it make sense to run large buses on the Dundas BRT to have space between people.

Am I just tripping?

The BRT ROW will only work at this time on Dundas from Kipling to Mavis Rd and be express buses to Waterdown for the next 20 years or when Halton decides to put density along and near Dundas.

From Mavis Rd to Halton, Mississauga needs to do the same as Halton, but limit to various areas due to the valley and tearing low density that rears Dundas. Lots of parking lots that can become density.

If urban design was done correct on Dundas from 427 to Mavis, you could 300,000 in that area and would support the subway to Hurontario with the BRT being replace by LRT first.

Just because the Milton Line almost beside Dundas, they both serve different markets and you need both.

As someone who wrote an opposition to Mississauga Transitway back in 2004, I stated that it was 2 different things, serve different markets, but most of all it should been an LRT line based on ridership numbers. Those numbers were very inflated to the point it was the WHOLE GO Bus system and very little for Mississauga Transit.

The Transitway has been a dog breakfast from day one from under estimating cost, poor planning and over stating ridership. This is only a faction of the line as it was to run from Pickering to Burlington by the Hydro Corridor. We now know most of the Hydro corridor cannot be use for the Transitway

The original cost to built the Mississauga section 100% was to be around $400 million in 2004 dollars, but only 60% got built for $600 Million which I stated was going to happen back in 2004.

The Sq One Terminal was built as a 2 level terminal with the BRT being below ground, to service 25,000 riders in a city of 250,000 which was a joke considering the city was to be 725,000 by 2025 which has come and gone years ago. It was one of a number great mistakes that Hazel and council made in the late 80's and the 90's before my time that we have to live with today. The city refused to pay the extra money for a larger area to meet future transit needs for the terminal, having the Hersey Centre where the Movie theater is and the list goes on.

In the 2000's, Hazel would cry at council at the cost of building the transitway and where she was going to find the money to pay for it to the point the tunnel from the terminal under Hurontario was scrap, removing the ROW on the northside of the 403 along with station as well the overpass over the 403 at Duke of York to the tunnel for the terminal along with a number of other things.

10 years after the terminal open, it was expanded to what there now along removing routes from it, yet still too small. The same year, Station Gate was finish off to allow for a GO Station to be built there that has been expanded and still needs to be expanded.

The City need to built a new Transit Centre to service The Transitway, GO, miWay, the LRT, a branch line off the Milton Line and future LRT lines as well 125-150,000 riders daily. Both terminals were seeing around 70,000 a day before COVID-19.

The Transitway has been a GO Thing from day one in planning as well operation and will see the lion share of riders. Until the 107 came along, Mississauga could not offer 15 minute bus service to the airport that is in the city back yard, other than using the 7 that ran every 30 minutes weekday and hourly on the weekend to the point Malton should have been part of Toronto that offer better service.

As for the 109, it started out with a few riders from Islington and had a few more when it hit Sq One. Before COVID-19, it was time to replace the 40's with 60's since ridership was exceeding capacity with buses bypass stations if no one wanted off as there was no space for them. It came to a point you were doing 1:1 going westbound when the bus hit Sq One and almost the same going eastbound to the residents. Then, the Etobicoke Councilor said everything west of 427 should have been Mississauga.

The plan 100 was to started over 5 years before it hit the road from Sq One to Terminal One every 10 minutes. When it started, it was every 30 minutes from Winston Churchill with next to no riders on it and should never see the light of day again.

The City is looking at fixing the connection for the Transitway in the city core underground on the north side of Rathburn where a NEW TRANSIT CENTRE should be built for 2050 ridership plus.

 

[jys]

Will this thing actually be used? Seems like the kind of thing that one of those wheels trans buses would work best with, I mean...you'd have a few people on each bus, maximum I would imagine? Maybe 12 tops. Only because of COVID would it make sense to run large buses on the Dundas BRT to have space between people.

Am I just tripping?

If you're referring to the section between UTM and Kipling, that's a corridor which sees very frequent service from the 2 branches of #1 and the 2 branches of #101. (Pre-pandemic) combined frequency was 5mins or less during peak.
For the rest the corridor through (Waterdown to Trafalgar) you're not far off.

 

[gibsonm]

The story of the Transitway is very Field of Dreams, if we build it they will come. Only intensification and the inevitable population growth of the coming decades will make it viable and self-funding. I guess as GO bus infrastructure it works well enough, but the Dundas busway won't have all those expensive underpasses and stations. It will have streetscape and roadway upgrades, consolidated driveways, and extra lanes along stretches of Dundas for stops/jump lanes. That speeds up bus travel only marginally because the busses will continue to stop at the same traffic lights as other drivers. It's not rapid transit. It will improve the look and usage of Dundas somewhat. Right beside it is the perfect ROW without traffic lights and stoppages that is already functioning as a commuter rail line and could be upgraded to a frequent surface subway from Kipling to Hurontario at a fraction of the cost of building a subway or LRT. It's called the Milton GO line. Why is this so hard to fathom?

 

[jys]

Thanks for hurling insults though. Sad that you have to resort to getting personal rather than bringing facts or a persuasive argument to the table.

I do apologize, the last bit was said in jest. No offense was meant.

The MyWay Busway along the 403 is a lovely overbuilt white elephant, but maybe by 2050 after the Eglinton West extension of the Crosstown is completed it will be a very busy transit line.

That would be MiWay, but semantics aside, overbuilt it is in some ways, white elephant it is not. I will freely admit that the Western section (Erin Mills to Winston Churchill) is a waste of money and has arguably made service worse. Also, Cawthra station and perhaps a few others do not offer good value for money. Nevertheless, it would be incorrect to say that it is not busy, and considering the improvements to 109 and 107 service, it is by no means a waste of money (aside from Western segment and some stations as stated earlier).

how many additional tracks would be necessary or what kind of lease agreement could be struck with CP

I don't put much faith in it because we've seen no progress over the past decade(s); I think @drum118 would be most qualified to comment on this. Realistically what are the prospects for RER on Milton GO?

How much time do you think the Dundas busway will actually cut from the current Hurontario to Kipling route? 10 minutes?

Frankly I'm not sure. I'd call 10 minutes a win considering the trip currently takes 20minutes on the 101 Express (maybe 25-30 in heavy traffic?). @drum118 ? BTW a trip on the Milton line from Hurontario to Kipling currently takes 10 mins.

Basically taking transit from Hurontario to Yonge and Bloor will continue to be a lengthy ordeal with marginal improvement. Awesome socks.

As it would be with the Milton GO. You'd have to get off at Kipling and transfer to the subway (under the situation you proposed), so the only time saving would be between Kipling and Hurontario and any such saving would only be applicable to those that live near GO station or transfer from a Hurontario bus.

As drum stated in his post, the two serve different markets. If possible, I'd love to have both. But if I could only pick 1, it's obvious which one makes sense. While the BRT would still bring significantly better service to those best served by a Milton Line train (compared to the status quo), the opposite cannot be said.

 

[sixrings]

The story of the Transitway is very Field of Dreams, if we build it they will come. Only intensification and the inevitable population growth of the coming decades will make it viable and self-funding. I guess as GO bus infrastructure it works well enough, but the Dundas busway won't have all those expensive underpasses and stations. It will have streetscape and roadway upgrades, consolidated driveways, and extra lanes along stretches of Dundas for stops/jump lanes. That speeds up bus travel only marginally because the busses will continue to stop at the same traffic lights as other drivers. It's not rapid transit. It will improve the look and usage of Dundas somewhat. Right beside it is the perfect ROW without traffic lights and stoppages that is already functioning as a commuter rail line and could be upgraded to a frequent surface subway from Kipling to Hurontario at a fraction of the cost of building a subway or LRT. It's called the Milton GO line. Why is this so hard to fathom?

The go line could in fact be upgraded. But it would not cost a fraction of what a LRT would cost. It will take billions to rework that rail contract. Now considering we have no problem spending money extending the danforth to stc and overloading the Yonge line by extending it and overbuilding eglinton west there seems to be logic that some people like spending lots of monies on projects which likely will take decades to repay. No different then that BRT you dislike. I’m ok with it. It’ll make visiting the in-laws easier. How to pay for it? Tolls?!?

 

[jys]

consolidated driveways, and extra lanes along stretches of Dundas for stops/jump lanes.

My understanding was that it is to be a median BRT line from the Credit Woodlands to Kipling. Has that changed?

That speeds up bus travel only marginally because the busses will continue to stop at the same traffic lights as other drivers.

As things currently stand, you are likely correct in that signal priority will be limited due to politics/paradigms, which means that there are two solutions.
1) We pressure our politicians to increase signal priority. This might become easier as operations begin and the need manifests itself clearly.
2) We spend a huge amount of extra money to build a subway instead.
*Milton line RER serve a very different market so it's not an alternative (it nicely complements transit on Dundas but cannot effectively supplant it)

Would it be correct for me to say that many people on this forum seem to think that 2 is the only option?

 

[sixrings]

My understanding was that it is to be a median BRT line from the Credit Woodlands to Kipling. Has that changed?

As things currently stand, you are likely correct in that signal priority will be limited due to politics/paradigms, which means that there are two solutions.
1) We pressure our politicians to increase signal priority. This might become easier as operations begin and the need manifests itself clearly.
2) We spend a huge amount of extra money to build a subway instead.
*Milton line RER serve a very different market so it's not an alternative (it nicely complements transit on Dundas but cannot effectively supplant it)

Would it be correct for me to say that many people on this forum seem to think that 2 is the only option?

I was told that lrt was cheap and that it was quick and easy to implement on major corridors. Then I was told by the brt that it was even cheaper and that we could build more brt lines for the same price as what we would pay for lrt lines. Now the brt people are saying that we don’t need those lines either because they too are a waste of money. I just think some people don’t want to prioritize transit. Mississauga which is specifically what we are talking about here has plenty of three lanes in each direction roads buffered with grass and sidewalks before the buildings. If we can’t build brt here then we have failed.

 

[afransen]

The story of the Transitway is very Field of Dreams, if we build it they will come. Only intensification and the inevitable population growth of the coming decades will make it viable and self-funding. I guess as GO bus infrastructure it works well enough, but the Dundas busway won't have all those expensive underpasses and stations. It will have streetscape and roadway upgrades, consolidated driveways, and extra lanes along stretches of Dundas for stops/jump lanes. That speeds up bus travel only marginally because the busses will continue to stop at the same traffic lights as other drivers. It's not rapid transit. It will improve the look and usage of Dundas somewhat. Right beside it is the perfect ROW without traffic lights and stoppages that is already functioning as a commuter rail line and could be upgraded to a frequent surface subway from Kipling to Hurontario at a fraction of the cost of building a subway or LRT. It's called the Milton GO line. Why is this so hard to fathom?

It has similar speed benefit of median LRT. It's as good as its going to get short of full-blown grade separated rail.

 

[afransen]

I was told that lrt was cheap and that it was quick and easy to implement on major corridors. Then I was told by the brt that it was even cheaper and that we could build more brt lines for the same price as what we would pay for lrt lines. Now the brt people are saying that we don’t need those lines either because they too are a waste of money. I just think some people don’t want to prioritize transit. Mississauga which is specifically what we are talking about here has plenty of three lanes in each direction roads buffered with grass and sidewalks before the buildings. If we can’t build brt here then we have failed.

As a resident, I think it would be very helpful for Mississauga to have a grid of BRTs connecting the city together and feeding into what limited regional rail exists in the city. Combine that with decent cycling facilities and parking at BRT stations, and we actually have a hope of getting choice riders out of cars.

 

[tsm1072]

As a resident, I think it would be very helpful for Mississauga to have a grid of BRTs connecting the city together and feeding into what limited regional rail exists in the city. Combine that with decent cycling facilities and parking at BRT stations, and we actually have a hope of getting choice riders out of cars.

My fantasy BRT to Mississauga-Brampton-Oakville:

 

[sixrings]

My fantasy BRT to Mississauga-Brampton-Oakville:
View attachment 313061

I don’t know why every major road wouldn’t have brt if it’s cheap to implement. It might seem excessive but it’s the luxury of having so much road space which a place like Toronto doesn’t.