RZ going to Council Sept 8.

south elevation.PNG
 
IanO said:
I'm still very, VERY much divided on this one given other options, lack of character space respect and the owner's track record.
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Again, we cannot dictate who sells what to who, and we cannot say if they haven't tried to buy something adjacent or not.
I am all in favor of preserving our historical resources, but I don't see how it could be good for downtown, losing this tower and probably getting nothing: no one will restore or repurpose this building and the developers will probably just pull out altogether.
If there was ANY indication that not moving forward with this would result in the building being restored and repurposed as apartments/condos or office (like, being taken by a new company HQ or so...), I would be one to pick up a rake a a torch a march against the development.
 
IanO said:
I'm still very, VERY much divided on this one given other options, lack of character space respect and the owner's track record.
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Nothing to be divided about. This project will either proceed or not with this developer if Limak was actually the developer that built the 3 properties on the website and did not simply purchase them as an investor. . I dont know "what" is going to council - is it a rezoning? If so my money is on Limak flipping it and taking a walk.
 
^

sorry, but i just don't get this one at all from a city planning perspective, from an architectural perspective or from a financial perspective.

as near as i can tell, this site has a total area of approximately 22,500 sf.

this application will see the maximum height increased from 115m to 160m.

it will see the maximum fsr increase from 8.0 to 16.0.

that's an increase of approximately 180,000 sf of buildable area.

and the total cost to the developer is $325,622 which is to be deemed paid via the provision of public art, the completion of street amenities and boulevard trees adjacent to the building and the retention of most of one wall of a heritage structure, the rest of which will be demolished even though the entire structure is in perfectly serviceable condition.

sooo... if my math is correct, the city has gifted the developer 180,000 sf in additional density at the top of the building where it worth the most for the grand sum of $1.81 per buildable square foot and which only needs to be paid "in kind" when the project is completed (and which will likely provide more than that in value to the project than the city at that time) along with the developer paying for the cost of demolition of the rest of the heritage structure (because we all know that actual heritage structures apparently don't have any real value in the urban fabric of the city's heritage area zone).

if i'm missing anything here, i'm happy to be better informed although i will remain just as disappointed. :(
 
I personally really hope this gets built as depicted. It’s basically exactly what is needed there.

I wish it was partially a hotel too. (I now see it likely is) I think people who don’t live on 104 patronizing the area will be good for retail.
 
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I am largely in agreement with Planning Administration overview... this development is a bonus for the walk-ability of 104th Street and assists in underscoring the importance of the Ice District as a nodal area that needs to be intensified. Nicely packaged @IanO. The City needs to "handcuff" Limak to this deal so that they do not exercise an upgrade-and-"sale" scenario -- they should make sure that their reputation is on the line -- precise with no wiggle room.
 
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we shouldn’t have to figure out how to handicap limak - or anyone else - from not being able to exercise their development rights, we shouldn’t be giving away development rights like free popcorn and then trying to figure out how to claw them back..

zoning rights belongs to the land and flow with it, they’re independent of who owns the land and rightfully so.

as for limak completing this project, why in the world would they even consider it? the lift in land value is now already in the bank and is probably more than the net present value they would get by completing the actual project. they would be crazy to take on that additional development risk, as would anyone else. we’ve seen so much of this already, you’d think we’d learn by now.
 
kcantor said:
^

we shouldn’t have to figure out how to handicap limak - or anyone else - from not being able to exercise their development rights, we shouldn’t be giving away development rights like free popcorn and then trying to figure out how to claw them back..

zoning rights belongs to the land and flow with it, they’re independent of who owns the land and rightfully so.

as for limak completing this project, why in the world would they even consider it? the lift in land value is now already in the bank and is probably more than the net present value they would get by completing the actual project. they would be crazy to take on that additional development risk, as would anyone else. we’ve seen so much of this already, you’d think we’d learn by now.
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"the lift in land value is now already in the bank and is probably more than the net present value they would get by completing the actual project.". True so very true. I forget whether the site has been declared a historic site and if not - they best sell sooner than later to a developer that might want to demolish the existing building.

I am curious, Ken, what you think may have been the net gain they made by the rezoning?
 
EdmTrekker said:
"the lift in land value is now already in the bank and is probably more than the net present value they would get by completing the actual project.". True so very true. I forget whether the site has been declared a historic site and if not - they best sell sooner than later to a developer that might want to demolish the existing building.

I am curious, Ken, what you think may have been the net gain they made by the rezoning?
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downtown multi family sites seem to be trading in the range of $30 - 50 per buildable sf.

given that the bonus being given is achieved at the top where it is the most valuable square footage on the project, at $50 psf an additional 180,000 sf of buildable area would have a current theoretical value of $9,000,000.
 
kcantor said:
downtown multi family sites seem to be trading in the range of $30 - 50 per buildable sf.

given that the bonus being given is achieved at the top where it is the most valuable square footage on the project, at $50 psf an additional 180,000 sf of buildable area would have a current theoretical value of $9,000,000.
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A very nice gifting courtesy of the Taxpayers of Edmonton ... the City administration could have said no. I suppose that 180,000 sq ft might achieve 180-250 additional condos to what might have been built without the rezoning? Whats the residential tax payback to make up the gifted $9 million and what I am I forgetting? .
 
EdmTrekker said:
A very nice gifting courtesy of the Taxpayers of Edmonton ... the City administration could have said no. I suppose that 180,000 sq ft might achieve 180-250 additional condos to what might have been built without the rezoning? Whats the residential tax payback to make up the gifted $9 million and what I am I forgetting? .
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if you assume that those 180 - 250 purchasers will simply purchase another condo if these units don't get built (which is no different that would happen if the entire project doesn't go ahead but people still want/need a condo), then there there is no residential tax payback to make up the gifted $9,000,000.
 
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