It has gone from 2 towers to 1 because of city planning.
I realize that, the city has a habit of negotiating down instead of up, they keep saying that we need more affordable housing and on a site like this it would be a good one to try to get more affordable rental units instead of less.
 
It has gone from 2 towers to 1 because of city planning.

That's not exactly accurate.

The City forced down the height.

The proponent tried to offset that loss by redeploying the density (eliminating the space between the two towers).

The original proposal wasn't really viable.

The revised one isn't desirable.

The object, on publicly-owned lands, should never be the making of money; but the achievement of public good.

In that spirit (and while making money if so desired) there are far greater opportunities here being squandered.

I'm not laying this one on City Planning.

The proposal was and is, ill-conceived.

Height per se was not, and is not its problem.

Lack of imagination and creativity by the proponent is its chief failure; along with failure to consider the public good as the preeminent desire.
 
That's not exactly accurate.

The City forced down the height.

The proponent tried to offset that loss by redeploying the density (eliminating the space between the two towers).

The original proposal wasn't really viable.

The revised one isn't desirable.

The object, on publicly-owned lands, should never be the making of money; but the achievement of public good.

In that spirit (and while making money if so desired) there are far greater opportunities here being squandered.

I'm not laying this one on City Planning.

The proposal was and is, ill-conceived.

Height per se was not, and is not its problem.

Lack of imagination and creativity by the proponent is its chief failure; along with failure to consider the public good as the preeminent desire.
Curious what your ideal proposal here might look like given the opportunities and constraints imposed by the current system.
 
What does this mean?

The separation distances remained problematic.

The shadow impact was going to be a known issue.

Non-compliant with many other City policies.

If you draw something you know, or ought to know will not be permitted according to existing policy/regulation, it's just pretend.
 
The separation distances remained problematic.

The shadow impact was going to be a known issue.

Non-compliant with many other City policies.

If you draw something you know, or ought to know will not be permitted according to existing policy/regulation, it's just pretend.
They were?

1612014096838-png.297064


1612014140482-png.297065
 
Curious what your ideal proposal here might look like given the opportunities and constraints imposed by the current system.

There are a raft of choices, all dependent on a host of other things.

That's not a cop-out, and I'll outline some thinking below.

But let's start where this goes wrong; Canada Lands Co. selling a public property at a prime location without considering the public good in the sale whatsoever.

No consideration of affordable housing, no consideration of purpose-built rental, no consideration of an optimal layout for Harbour Street, etc etc.

That singular action puts everything on a very bad trajectory, because once a developer has paid a speculative maximum based on what they hope to be able to build, they are
almost forever trapped by having to recover and make margin on that price.

The only saving grace, arguably, being Toronto's spiraling real estate costs which conceivably allow recovery of the purchase on a smaller or more expensive build over time.

*****

That said, we are where we are; so what now?

We need to decide what our assumptions are on the constraints of the site.

Clearly, separation distances are a glaring limitation, that a serious challenge to overcome.
Height limits, either due to shadowing or if applicable, flight paths.
The narrow public realm on Harbour.
The City's requirements for parks/public space.
From a marketability perspective, the question of what views one can sell also matter, with the least appealing being those are essentially southerly (except mid-site) and easterly as they are straight into the condos at Waterclub.

*****

Now let's try this from a 'What could make this sell or rent at the highest $ per ft2'?

Views.....so what we want are the clear'ish north-western view across the Gardiner, affording a western sunset; an eastern corridor along the Harbour canyon, or a southern view through the Waterclub towers
or over the top of them (ideally Lake view).

You also want to address the area if you can with your S. 37/42 contributions to boost the desirability of your own property, and consider the public realm on the same basis.

1) Zero Parks or Pops on-site, adds no value from the perspective of a resident.
2) Agree with City to spend those land value dollars on the Waterfront Promenade bridges for WT; showpieces that stitch the trail together, comparatively easy to render and deliver quickly, they can add value to the property, while meeting a long-standing City-building goal.
3) Widen the Habour public realm, its nothing be regrettable now. Making it wider, safer, and wherever possible offering a row of trees is $$
4) Dog-relief/winter dog walking can go on the top of the podium, and waste heat from the podium can be recycled as a snow-melt system making it pleasant to use year round.

Work is kinda busy today, so I'll back to the question below, in a separate post.

Now, how do you maximize buildable area, (lets assume roughly that conventional separation distances apply).
 

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There are a raft of choices, all dependent on a host of other things.

That's not a cop-out, and I'll outline some thinking below.

But let's start where this goes wrong; Canada Lands Co. selling a public property at a prime location without considering the public good in the sale whatsoever.

No consideration of affordable housing, no consideration of purpose-built rental, no consideration of an optimal layout for Harbour Street, etc etc.

That singular action puts everything on a very bad trajectory, because once a developer has paid a speculative maximum based on what they hope to be able to build, they are
almost forever trapped by having to recover and make margin on that price.

The only saving grace, arguably, being Toronto's spiraling real estate costs which conceivably allow recovery of the purchase on a smaller or more expensive build over time.

*****

That said, we are where we are; so what now?

We need to decide what our assumptions on the constraints of the site.

Clearly, separation distances are a glaring limitation, that a serious challenge to overcome.
Height limits, either due to shadowing or if applicable, flight paths.
The narrow public realm on Harbord.
The City's requirements for parks/public space.
From a marketability perspective, the question of what views one can sell also matter, with the least appealing being those are essentially southerly (except mid-site) and easterly as they are straight into the condos at Waterclub.

*****

Now let's try this from a 'What could make this sell or rent at the highest $ per ft2'?

Views.....so what we want are the clear'ish north-western view across the Gardiner, affording a western sunset; an eastern corridor along the Harbour canyon, or a southern view through the Waterclub towers
or over the top of them (ideally Lake view).

You also want to address the area if you can with your S. 37/42 contributions to boost the desirability of your own property, and consider the public realm on the same basis.

1) Zero Parks or Pops on-site, adds no value from the perspective of a resident.
2) Agree with City to spend those land value dollars on the Waterfront Promenade bridges for WT; showpieces that stitch the trail together, comparatively easy to render and deliver quickly, they can add value to the property, while meeting a long-standing City-building goal.
3) Widen the Habour public realm, its nothing be regrettable now. Making it wider, safer, and wherever possible offering a row of trees is $$
4) Dog-relief/winter dog walking can go on the top of the podium, and waste heat from the podium can be recycled as a snow-melt system making it pleasant to use year round.

Work is kinda busy today, so I'll back to the question below, in a separate post.

Now, how do you maximize buildable area, (lets assume roughly that conventional separation distances apply).
This is a lot of words but the reality is the site is currently an 8 storey ugly behemoth of a parking garage with zero setbacks, zero public realm, and a huge attractor for car users into a congested, important part of our town.

The proposal would introduce over 1,000 new homes including a significant portion affordable. The first proposal met all the separation standards and cast a shadow less than 20% of a park during the policy regulated hours of 10:18 - 4:18 on March and Sept 21.

The first proposal had a POPS on Simcoe, and the second has a public park.

Both proposals significantly increase the setback and quality of public realm on Harbord (and all other sides).

Yes, we can talk about specific areas where we would like to see change, but you are asking for perfection and using it to argue against the good.

The federal government is not in the local land use planning and urban design business. They sold the site for the maximum possible price. This is neither their fault nor responsibility.

I'm also not sure you have actually looked at the old or new proposal carefully given some of your comments.
 
This is a lot of words but the reality is the site is currently an 8 storey ugly behemoth of a parking garage with zero setbacks, zero public realm, and a huge attractor for car users into a congested, important part of our town.

Agreed. I'm not defending the status quo.

The proposal would introduce over 1,000 new homes including a significant portion affordable. The first proposal met all the separation standards and cast a shadow less than 20% of a park during the policy regulated hours of 10:18 - 4:18 on March and Sept 21.

The City's standard is no net new shadow on most parks, and the reason is simple, precedent. If developer at can have 20%, why not developers B, C, and D? Then its 80% shadow, not 20%.

The first proposal had a POPS on Simcoe, and the second has a public park.

Both completely useless wastes of space. I'm pro park, but only good parks; not parks for the sake of checking a box.

Both proposals significantly increase the setback and quality of public realm on Harbord (and all other sides).

The frontage on the west is materially improved. The Harbour frontage as proposed is extremely dangerous to cyclists and pedestrians with potentially high volumes of cars criss-crossing the bike path. Habour will remain mediocre.

Yes, we can talk about specific areas where we would like to see change, but you are asking for perfection and using it to argue against the good.

LOL, absolutely not. I'm a pragmatist. I do believe in aiming for perfection though, so that when one fails, you fail down to excellent or at worst very good.

This is not that. Calling it rubbish would over-state its value several fold.

The federal government is not in the local land use planning and urban design business. They sold the site for the maximum possible price. This is neither their fault nor responsibility.

The Federal government is not in business. Its the government. Its job is to serve the public interest in all of its actions, all of the time. They clearly failed to do here, that is their fault and their responsibility.
On this point we disagree in the strongest possible way.

I'm also not sure you have actually looked at the old or new proposal carefully given some of your comments.

That is incredibly insulting. My reputation here stands on its own.
 

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