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^To be clear i'm not saying there should be fare gates at the transfer between the Yonge-University line and the Eglinton Crosstown. I'm just stating there will be fare gates at the Line 5 entrances.
 
Amare said:
^To be clear i'm not saying there should be fare gates at the transfer between the Yonge-University line and the Eglinton Crosstown. I'm just stating there will be fare gates at the Line 5 entrances.
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I get that there will be at the entrances which makes sense but for example, at Kennedy the current setup has a hallway that isn't in the fare-paid zone with an entrance to the crosstown on the non-fare paid area unless the TTC and Matrolinxs plan to make that hallway which provides a non-fare paid access to the go train station a fare paid zone then they would need to have fare gates to get to the crosstown.
 
The connection between line 5 and line 2 is in the paid fare zone.
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When every bus route arrives in the fare paid zone, I'm not sure why a major transit line wouldn't. They need to handle fare evasion as a separate plan. They could just implement tap-off / tap-to-exit and catch everybody who didn't tap on, they could create random fare check locations like they have on occasion getting off the 510. A high fare evasion fine and some well publicized events where people receive that fine would solve the problem pretty quick.
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
It shouldn't be because of the stupid Pop system that they want to use all it will do is add more people who won't pay their fare to the system.
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I ride the King streetcar almost every day, and the level of compliance is very high. It's obviously not 100%, but pretty close. There's a fair amount of fare enforcement these days, though they'd be easy to dodge if you planned for it.
 
EnviroTO said:
When every bus route arrives in the fare paid zone, I'm not sure why a major transit line wouldn't. They need to handle fare evasion as a separate plan. They could just implement tap-off / tap-to-exit and catch everybody who didn't tap on, they could create random fare check locations like they have on occasion getting off the 510. A high fare evasion fine and some well publicized events where people receive that fine would solve the problem pretty quick.
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They should have fare Gates at stations before you get on the subway as well. The whole idea of Pop is just a waste of money for the people who pay their fare and an excuse for people who think that because it's "too expensive" its ok to walk in through a bus entrance or get on a stretcher for free. We should be looking at ways to stop that because fare inspections don't work because people complain about being targeted and stuff like that.
 
evandyk said:
I ride the King streetcar almost every day, and the level of compliance is very high. It's obviously not 100%, but pretty close. There's a fair amount of fare enforcement these days, though they'd be easy to dodge if you planned for it.
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I think some routes are better than others just like some stations are better than others like for example any time i go to main Street station there are people who just walk right in through the bus and streetcar boarding areas into the station and down to the subway. They probably think that it's ok because they don't get caught doing it but it's not.
 
I believe a fare gate costs about $45K to purchase and install. To break even each fare gate would need to catch 13,900 fare evasions and this doesn't count people who use a child pass or discount pass that clearly don't qualify for one because the fare gate can't validate that information. If everyone and a high volume transfer point needed to tap that would mean a very large number of gate installs. I'm not sure how big the fare evasion issue is (excluding those with child or discount passes the don't qualify for), but unless it is significant there are probably better ways to deal with it. Now if the Metrolinx pushes for fare by distance across all modes with a tap off required, then this additional number of gates might pay for themselves in other ways.
 
EnviroTO said:
I believe a fare gate costs about $45K to purchase and install. To break even each fare gate would need to catch 13,900 fare evasions and this doesn't count people who use a child pass or discount pass that clearly don't qualify for one because the fare gate can't validate that information. If everyone and a high volume transfer point needed to tap that would mean a very large number of gate installs. I'm not sure how big the fare evasion issue is (excluding those with child or discount passes the don't qualify for), but unless it is significant there are probably better ways to deal with it. Now if the Metrolinx pushes for fare by distance across all modes with a tap off required, then this additional number of gates might pay for themselves in other ways.
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Whatever I'm just thinking that because the TTC doesn't actually own the line they should treat it separately like they do if you connect from the go train and Metrolinx should be the one's who should deal with that as apparently they know better than everyone else does now because the provincial government told them that they do
 
EastYorkTTCFan said:
I think some routes are better than others just like some stations are better than others like for example any time i go to main Street station there are people who just walk right in through the bus and streetcar boarding areas into the station and down to the subway. They probably think that it's ok because they don't get caught doing it but it's not.
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...and I have seen people hop over gates. Without enforcement, awareness of people getting caught, and penalties that ensure that the price of not paying is much higher than paying, the issue isn't going to go away. GO transit operated for many years in a way that people knew that if they rode the GO for free every day for a couple of weeks, there was a high probability of getting caught. I haven't seen a fare inspector on the TTC other than at the end of the 510, and most infractions that occur with TTC staff witnessing them don't lead to action.
 
evandyk said:
I ride the King streetcar almost every day, and the level of compliance is very high. It's obviously not 100%, but pretty close. There's a fair amount of fare enforcement these days, though they'd be easy to dodge if you planned for it.
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Good to know. I should start paying I guess. :D (Before anyone responds... I'm kidding)
 
EnviroTO said:
...and I have seen people hop over gates. Without enforcement, awareness of people getting caught, and penalties that ensure that the price of not paying is much higher than paying, the issue isn't going to go away. GO transit operated for many years in a way that people knew that if they rode the GO for free every day for a couple of weeks, there was a high probability of getting caught. I haven't seen a fare inspector on the TTC other than at the end of the 510, and most infractions that occur with TTC staff witnessing them don't lead to action.
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Must be some dedicated evader to hop the gate every day. If they are truly broke, lost their wallet, homeless or mental issues, they can do that. A fare gate would reduce these for regular folks who sees the flaw and simply take advantage of it. If fare gates help enforce a better society and not state of anarchy, I think it's a good idea.
 
Steve X said:
Must be some dedicated evader to hop the gate every day. If they are truly broke, lost their wallet, homeless or mental issues, they can do that. A fare gate would reduce these for regular folks who sees the flaw and simply take advantage of it. If fare gates help enforce a better society and not state of anarchy, I think it's a good idea.
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It is this view that suggests catching people, talking to them to figure out why they aren't paying, and the risk of a punishing fine and a few days locked up to think about it is the better solution. If we have a society where every store needs gates, every transit stop needs gates, public area needs cameras, have we made a better society? Having been a child at a time where everyone's front door was unlocked and farmers had stands with produce sitting in their front yard with prices on a board and a box to slip money into, a need to put gates everywhere and garbage bins everywhere doesn't seem like "improving society". We somehow need to train people respect... I don't know how but let's put our money there instead of buying $45K a pop fate gates to check and re-check if people paid $3.25.
 
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