[TAS]

I understand the people nearby may not want this. However, It is NIMBYism at its finest, but the fact is the people who would use and benefit from this facility are already in the area and nearby.

I will say I was hoping this project was going to move ahead, and it might still happen, but listening to some of the concerns of nearby residents and businesses in the area during the public hearing, they've had a tough time of it, too (moreso than your typical yeg neighbourhood, that's for sure).

I definitely would not characterize the opposition to this project by the people and businesses in this area as "NIMBYism at its finest".

I think at its finest is reserved to situations like Glenora residents fighting against a corner lot development of 4 brick townhomes that would be priced at $800k each as not meeting the character of the neighbourhood and impacting children's safety.

 

[David A]

but the people who are going to Boyle Street are already in the area, they will not be taking the bus in from Glenora.

 

[soupcrate]

but the people who are going to Boyle Street are already in the area, they will not be taking the bus in from Glenora.

I mean, there's a pretty strong case to be made that the homeless are in that area in the first place because of the massive amount of shelter capacity.

 

[kcantor]

I mean, there's a pretty strong case to be made that the homeless are in that area in the first place because of the massive amount of shelter capacity.

they’re not in the area because of shelter capacity…

the shelters are there because the homeless are already there and bscc is there to try and end it, not enable it. whether or not bscc is permitted to move 400 yards will effect nothing but continue to hamper their ability to do that.

 

[soupcrate]

they’re not in the area because of shelter capacity…

the shelters are there because the homeless are already there and bscc is there to try and end it, not enable it. whether or not bscc is permitted to move 400 yards will effect nothing but continue to hamper their ability to do that.

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I'm not at all opposed to the new BSCS facility, but there's definitely a positive feedback loop here. More shelter space in the area -> more unhoused people in the area -> more shelter space in the area. Repeat ad infinitum (and throw in some more causal cycles like: more homeless in the area -> local residents start to move out -> less opposition to new shelters -> more shelter space) and you have the current state of Boyle Street/McCauley or the DTES.

This isn't to say that we don't need more shelter space - we definitely do. But if you say all of it needs to go near Chinatown because that's where all the homeless are, you've got a self fulfilling prophecy on your hands.

 

[kcantor]

^
as noted in another thread, they are not in chinatown/macaulay/boyle street for shelter space. they are there because everything is close including pedestrians and traffic to panhandle, cheap food and liquor, transit and pedestrian connections (trails and sidewalks), petty crime opportunities, lanes, detached garages, bottle depots, recycling yards, day/casual labour opportunities (many of them prefer any employment they can get), places to warm (library to lrt stations), access to drugs, emergency services (fire and ambulance), hospitals and public health providers…

 

[Aaron_Lloyd]

While I would agree those are certainly attaractors as well for homeless, I call BS on the idea that those things only exist in northeast of Downtown. As we saw in 2020 with the camp in Light Horse Park clearly homeless are happy to exist south of the river too.

Why not use this opportunity with BSCS to move some of these services to Strathcona? Or do we just continue the cycle of dumping on already disadvantaged areas of our city because it's politically convenient?

 

[kcantor]

i don’t think i said these things only exist in northeast downtown but the concentration of those attractors is certainly greater in northeast downtown (and you could probably add the city’s main police station and the provincial law courts to that list of attractors).

 

[David A]

This is all so short sighted and silly, to be creating such difficulty for a not for profit organization that already exists in the area.

Sometimes I think we as a city or society have really lost the plot, particularly at moments like this.

Too often these days governments and some of their ridiculous and counter productive regulations are becoming part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[kcantor]

^

agreed - it is monumental government failure at all levels that has created this and continues to exacerbate it.

It seems strange to blame it on a non-profit trying to dealing with the consequences and ameliorate the situation.

 

[Clearshades]

This is all so short sighted and silly, to be creating such difficulty for a not for profit organization that already exists in the area.

Sometimes I think we as a city or society have really lost the plot, particularly at moments like this.

Too often these days governments and some of their ridiculous and counter productive regulations are becoming part of the problem, not the solution.

How is it short sighted? China town has had to deal with this population for 4 decades with no sight for any improvements while paying their full taxes. The same people that use this agency are seen in the Abbotsfield area. I invite you all for a tour from the mall to Coliseum station where every bust shelter is smashed then observe all the smash store front windows as you pass by. From 50st- 118ave, you'll find even more smashed bus shelters up to Superstore. I get some have mental setbacks, but many are substance abusers that are constantly trying to find a way to scam the system.

 

[Greenspace]

Here is the decision - https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abesdab/doc/2022/2022abesdab10136/2022abesdab10136.html

Boyle Street argued for a DP with 'Community Services' use accessory to 'Professional, Financial and Office Service Uses'. SDAB disagreed with this, Community Services being a primary use by Boyle Street [539]. There was one variance by the board did not feel it needed to respond to it. The decision is quite lengthy but basically Boyle Street should have applied for a change of use. Because they applied for a permitted use but had a variance they opened themselves up to appeal anyways (Class B).

 

[cmd uw]

Here is the decision - https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abesdab/doc/2022/2022abesdab10136/2022abesdab10136.html

Boyle Street argued for a DP with 'Community Services' use accessory to 'Professional, Financial and Office Service Uses'. SDAB disagreed with this, Community Services being a primary use by Boyle Street [539]. There was one variance by the board did not feel it needed to respond to it. The decision is quite lengthy but basically Boyle Street should have applied for a change of use. Because they applied for a permitted use but had a variance they opened themselves up to appeal anyways (Class B).

To be clear, it was the City that advised the applicant that 'Community Services' was an 'accessory' use to Professional, Financial and Office and Health Services uses which were being applied for with the application. The Board felt that those uses were not appropriate given the type of activities that would be taking place within the building.

 

[Whattagame]

How is it short sighted? China town has had to deal with this population for 4 decades with no sight for any improvements while paying their full taxes. The same people that use this agency are seen in the Abbotsfield area. I invite you all for a tour from the mall to Coliseum station where every bust shelter is smashed then observe all the smash store front windows as you pass by. From 50st- 118ave, you'll find even more smashed bus shelters up to Superstore. I get some have mental setbacks, but many are substance abusers that are constantly trying to find a way to scam the system.

^This post is quite devoid of empathy, and also does nothing to counter the claim of short-sightedness.

 

[kcantor]

^This post is quite devoid of empathy, and also does nothing to counter the claim of short-sightedness.

i’m not sure the post is devoid of empathy as much as it is a reflection of the 40 years of the negligence and neglect for those living in the area whether on the street or in their homes.

i remember having to go to court more than 20 years ago with a friend who was trying to have a meth lab/dealer evicted from a social housing project where the other tenants were pretty. i saw the same things happen in in the macdonald’s consolidated building lofts and dwayne’s home and continue to see evidence of it in numerous other places.

i have a friend in macaulay who needed the tactical unit to remove someone who broke into basement and wouldn’t leave.

i have elderly friend in macaulay whose home was broken into and had her tenant - an aish recipient - terrorized.

i have friends who no longer jog on some of the multi use trails because of needles and other debris.

i know businesses trying to cope with pop-up tents and open drug dealing and fires in doorways for drug use and needless graffiti and broken windows and squatters and cancelled insurance coverage…

i know a construction site where they didn’t just experience vandalism and theft, they had large sections of the site fencing that was put up to prevent that stolen.

and these are not isolated instances, they go on day after day after day after day…

so yes, empathy is important but after 40 years where is the empathy for Clearshades and his neighbours? it is not shortsightedness on their part that created this.