[crs1026]

Working on coming to an agreement with CP need not have any impact on the rest of GO expansion program.

The agreement is probably not the source of delay - it’s the pricetag. With GO Expansion and several LRT and subway projects still to be completed, there is only so much funding available. And only so many construction trades and project managers.

The Milton line will take a lot of money. The route has been studied extensively in the past, and the powers that be probably know just what is needed and what CP requires. There will need to be grade separations as well as expropriations, and a flyover/under. It’s probably as complex a project as GTS was….. a bridge too far, so to speak, until some other projects are finished.

- Paul

 

[afransen]

Will an agreement with CP cost money? If yes, then it will have an impact on GO expansion. Funds are always limited and adding one new project will reduce the available dollars for other projects.

The agreement itself need not cost that much. Implementation can be slow rolled subject to budget constraints.

 

[sixrings]

The agreement itself need not cost that much. Implementation can be slow rolled subject to budget constraints.

If the money was that trivial then the deal would have been signed and done along time ago. I’m very concerned that it’s substantially more and it’s just something politicians are saying is coming but know is not and don’t care since they will long be retired before it all hits the fan.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In "Murdock Mysteries"' S16 E14, "Murdock at the End of the World", they use the "Bolton GO" train to get from Toronto to Bolton's discarded salt mine.

Includes an appearance by former astronaut Chris Hadfield. From link.

The storyline follows the pending arrival of Halley’s comet which has left Constable George Crabtree and the constabulary to contend with hysterical citizens portending the end of the world, and a doomsayer who is murdered.

 

[sixrings]

In "Murdock Mysteries"' S16 E14, "Murdock at the End of the World", they use the "Bolton GO" train to get from Toronto to Bolton's discarded salt mine.

Includes an appearance by former astronaut Chris Hadfield. From link.

Chris Hadfield has a School walking distance from Cooksville. Yet here we are with a few trains one direction each day.

 

[afransen]

If the money was that trivial then the deal would have been signed and done along time ago. I’m very concerned that it’s substantially more and it’s just something politicians are saying is coming but know is not and don’t care since they will long be retired before it all hits the fan.

When I mean the agreement, I mean the actual discussion/negotiation with CP. The cost will I'm sure be substantial, but we can put it on the roadmap for implementation.

 

[T3G]

If the money was that trivial then the deal would have been signed and done along time ago. I’m very concerned that it’s substantially more and it’s just something politicians are saying is coming but know is not and don’t care since they will long be retired before it all hits the fan.

As I understand it, CP does not wish to part with the Galt sub because it forms a part of their Toronto - Chicago mainline. I highly doubt there is any way we could get them to part with it, the best we can probably hope for is an expansion of the extant corridor with more tracks, which will require properties to be expropriated. This is not necessarily a tragedy, because the Galt sub west of Kipling is the ugliest rail corridor in all creation, and the more properties around it that are destroyed, the better for the human soul, but it will cost a pretty penny, I should think.

Perhaps the EU was onto something when they mandated the separation of "the management of railway operation and infrastructure from the provision of railway transport services, separation of accounts being compulsory and organisational or institutional separation being optional". The fact that a freight operator running a few freight trains a day, on a corridor so "essential" that it is single track west of Guelph Junction, can hold thousands of passengers hostage is embarrassing.

 

[crs1026]

As I understand it, CP does not wish to part with the Galt sub because it forms a part of their Toronto - Chicago mainline. I highly doubt there is any way we could get them to part with it, the best we can probably hope for is an expansion of the extant corridor with more tracks, which will require properties to be expropriated. This is not necessarily a tragedy, because the Galt sub west of Kipling is the ugliest rail corridor in all creation, and the more properties around it that are destroyed, the better for the human soul, but it will cost a pretty penny, I should think.

Perhaps the EU was onto something when they mandated the separation of "the management of railway operation and infrastructure from the provision of railway transport services, separation of accounts being compulsory and organisational or institutional separation being optional". The fact that a freight operator running a few freight trains a day, on a corridor so "essential" that it is single track west of Guelph Junction, can hold thousands of passengers hostage is embarrassing.

From a purely rational intellectual level, the idea of placing a high volume freight line through the middle of an urban area is plain dumb…. but the railway came first in the late 1800s and the city grew around it.

Later, in the 1960’s, CN relocated its line to a bypass around the city…. but then the city grew around that, too.

On an intellectual level I would look to correct that somehow, but it would require changes to many deeply held beliefs (which I don’t necessarily think are all that sacred, but I don’t make the rules).

Thankfully, I do believe CP will cooperate with some intrusion of transit into its corridors provided its business interests are protected and they aren’t operating as a charity. So rather than digress into all that (and staying on topic here, the old Missing Link thread is a better place to discuss all that) - we mostly just need to be in a position where we bring the necessary money and get on with adding transit on various CP lines, as we have done already to Milton and soon to Bowmanville. Maybe one day CP can vacate those lines, but we don’t need to make that happen to get the transit going.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

As I understand it, CP does not wish to part with the Galt sub because it forms a part of their Toronto - Chicago mainline. I highly doubt there is any way we could get them to part with it, the best we can probably hope for is an expansion of the extant corridor with more tracks, which will require properties to be expropriated.

The edges of a few industrial properties perhaps. Much of the corridor looks like a minimum of 28-metres wide; which is wider than part of the Kingston Sub where they are currently building 6 tracks (2 for Ontario Line). There's some bottlenecks, but it looks like they've made sure that the corridor has been widened to 28-m as suburban development has occurred.

There's nothing that precludes having 2 tracks for CP and 2 tracks for Metrolinx while also leaving room for sidings, spurs, and station platforms.

This is not necessarily a tragedy, because the Galt sub west of Kipling is the ugliest rail corridor in all creation ...

You haven't ridden the New Jersey Transit and PATH corridors from New Jersey into Manhattan have you?

 

[lenaitch]

As I understand it, CP does not wish to part with the Galt sub because it forms a part of their Toronto - Chicago mainline. I highly doubt there is any way we could get them to part with it, the best we can probably hope for is an expansion of the extant corridor with more tracks, which will require properties to be expropriated. This is not necessarily a tragedy, because the Galt sub west of Kipling is the ugliest rail corridor in all creation, and the more properties around it that are destroyed, the better for the human soul, but it will cost a pretty penny, I should think.

Perhaps the EU was onto something when they mandated the separation of "the management of railway operation and infrastructure from the provision of railway transport services, separation of accounts being compulsory and organisational or institutional separation being optional". The fact that a freight operator running a few freight trains a day, on a corridor so "essential" that it is single track west of Guelph Junction, can hold thousands of passengers hostage is embarrassing.

Except, perhaps, for those souls who might be rendered unemployed to satisfy a travellers sensibilities.

Given the historical fact that industry clustered around what were the main corridors of transportation back in the day, and the corollary that residences (or at least those who had a choice) didn't, it's not surprising that there are likely very few urban rail corridors that cause artists to swoon.

 

[crs1026]

Except, perhaps, for those souls who might be rendered unemployed to satisfy a travellers sensibilities.

Given the historical fact that industry clustered around what were the main corridors of transportation back in the day, and the corollary that residences (or at least those who had a choice) didn't, it's not surprising that there are likely very few urban rail corridors that cause artists to swoon.

While it's necessary (to keep the adjacent properties liveable as train frequency goes up), I'm actually disappointed with the result of all the sound fencing that ML is doing.... the Uxbridge and Barrie lines used to be interesting because one could peer into everybody's back yards, and vegetable gardens....some of which were clearly on the ROW itself. These lines now have boring stretches of solid plain sound walls.... which the taggers have no trouble in livening up.

Those ugly industrial areas don't get sound walls, so they are becoming the most visually interesting segments of the ride. In general, riding the expanded GO network is getting to be not much more interesting than riding a subway.

- Paul

 

[W. K. Lis]

Here's the link to the PDF for the 2010 Bolton Commuter Rail Service Feasibility Study.

Options 1 – 3 are as follows:
Option 1 Bolton to Union via Weston Subdivision 56 minutes
Option 2 Bolton to Mount Dennis Shuttle 58 minutes
(includes 6 minute passenger transfer at Mount Dennis)
Option 3 Bolton to Summerhill 50 minutes

 

[Bordercollie]

Here's the link to the PDF for the 2010 Bolton Commuter Rail Service Feasibility Study.

View attachment 451507

Is there any potential to go further north? Barrie line alternative?

 

[dowlingm]

Is there any potential to go further north? Barrie line alternative?

Slim pickings population wise north of Bolton, other than Alliston, and it’s not like the track is bullet straight between Bolton and Beeton either due to terrain. Other than the amusement of a CP-GO loop via the BCRY, can’t imagine there would be much to say for it

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is there any potential to go further north? Barrie line alternative?

Just north of Bolton is the Greenbelt. Of course, with Doug in charge, it's merely small sticks to bulldoze through.

From link.