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Bojaxs said:
Is it possible that MX is suffering from the effects of nepotism? Too many people in upper management, with no construction, rail or engineering experience, but were promised high paying/ low effort jobs for political favours?
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There is no real in-house technical expertise at MX as far as I know, they contract it our to design firms as TA (Technical Advisor) who acts on behalf of MX, the CA (Contract Authority), and whom the contractors mainly deal with in coordination. These firms could act as TA in one project and Design Consultant in other, like a revolving circle.
WSP is TA for ECLRT, and Designer for ECWE Tunnel 2 & Hamilton LRT.
Arup is TA for ECWE & OnCorr, and Designer for Finch West LRT.
Mott MacDonald is TA for Ontario Line, and Designer for Scarborough Subway Extension.
 
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Admiral Beez said:

It's enough of an issue that they needed to post a policy about it.


(j) An employee shall not, on behalf of Metrolinx, hire their family member or friend. Additionalrequirements are in the Metrolinx Nepotism Policy.(k) An employee shall not, on behalf of Metrolinx, enter into a contract with their family memberor friend, or with any person or entity in which any of them has a substantial interest.(l) An employee who hires a person on behalf of Metrolinx shall ensure that the person doesnot report to, or supervise the work of, the person’s family member or friend. Additionalrequirements are in the Metrolinx Nepotism Policy.(m) An employee who reports to, or supervises the work of, their family member or friend, shallnotify Human Resources. Additional requirements are in the Metrolinx Nepotism Policy.
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evandyk said:
I think every big company has a policy to that effect.
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The growth of centralized HR departments and HR software makes nepotism less rampant in the public service, than say, thirty years ago. I don't doubt it still happens in some corners.
 
T3G said:
Not buying into the idea that a knowledge gap is to blame for this result. The TTC built the Spadina subway, Cherry Street tram line, and did countless rail replacement projects in the years surrounding the Crosstown's construction. The Spadina subway was delayed, but it was nowhere close to being as big of a cock up as the Crosstown was.

Is the lesson here that we should have had the TTC build it? Better the devil you know. I have not at any rate come away impressed by P3s or their necessity.
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This line is being built, managed, and operated by Metrolinx, who is contracting out the design and build, as well as operating contracts to organizations that are not the TTC. Also, Eglinton is being built for different train technology, and specs that really doesn't have any overlap with existing stock the TTC operate, so their knowledge on Spadina, etc isn't necessarily transferable.
 
BMO said:
This line is being built, managed, and operated by Metrolinx, who is contracting out the design and build, as well as operating contracts to organizations that are not the TTC. Also, Eglinton is being built for different train technology, and specs that really doesn't have any overlap with existing stock the TTC operate, so their knowledge on Spadina, etc isn't necessarily transferable.
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We should have just dug a proper 28 km subway entirely below grade from Renforth to Kennedy and using new buys of the same Toronto Rockets we use on the Sheppard and Yonge–University Lines, or whatever trains will be bought for the 26 km Bloor-Danforth line.

If we had started a boring machine at Renforth in 2011 and stayed below ground the entire distance, minus bridge underpasses, how long would it need to get to Kennedy? I believe such machines run at about 10-15 meters per day. It's 28,000 meters as the crow flies from Renforth to Kennedy, so that's 2,800 days, or about eight years, assuming we don't run a second machine from Kennedy going westward.
 
T3G said:
Not buying into the idea that a knowledge gap is to blame for this result. The TTC built the Spadina subway, Cherry Street tram line, and did countless rail replacement projects in the years surrounding the Crosstown's construction. The Spadina subway was delayed, but it was nowhere close to being as big of a cock up as the Crosstown was.

Is the lesson here that we should have had the TTC build it? Better the devil you know. I have not at any rate come away impressed by P3s or their necessity.
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Theres that 10 yr build talking point.

They started construction of the stations in 2016. while 8 years is a long time. It really isnt for a transit project of this size.

Does anyone actually count that 2027 date for the ontario line as truth? Anyone? is the ontario line 4 years delayed?
 
Admiral Beez said:
We should have just dug a proper 28 km subway entirely below grade from Renforth to Kennedy and using new buys of the same Toronto Rockets we use on the Sheppard and Yonge–University Lines, or whatever trains will be bought for the 26 km Bloor-Danforth line.

If we had started a boring machine at Renforth in 2011 and stayed below ground the entire distance, minus bridge underpasses, how long would it need to get to Kennedy? I believe such machines run at about 10-15 meters per day. It's 28,000 meters as the crow flies from Renforth to Kennedy, so that's 2,800 days, or about eight years, assuming we don't run a second machine from Kennedy going westward.
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You cant just think about bare tunnels here, the longer the line, the more rails, the more stations, the more electrical work.

I think I remember the stat as an underground station like queen/spadina nowadays is in the realm of 300-500 million for a single station

Theres like 15 stops in scarborough. Thats like an extra 5-7 billion. Thats very underestimated too
 
generalcanada said:
Theres that 10 yr build talking point.

They started construction of the stations in 2016. while 8 years is a long time. It really isnt for a transit project of this size.

Does anyone actually count that 2027 date for the ontario line as truth? Anyone? is the ontario line 4 years delayed?
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If you market it as the truth - which MX and the Ontario government did - then you die by your own sword. The problem isn't the buyer - it is the seller of that message. Laying that responsibility on anyone else is gaslighting.

AoD
 
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BMO said:
This line is being built, managed, and operated by Metrolinx, who is contracting out the design and build, as well as operating contracts to organizations that are not the TTC. Also, Eglinton is being built for different train technology, and specs that really doesn't have any overlap with existing stock the TTC operate, so their knowledge on Spadina, etc isn't necessarily transferable.
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Reread my post again, you'll find rebuttals to all of these arguments in it.

If Metrolinx is contracting out the job to people who are not the TTC, and finds the LRV technology to be foreign, that is all the more argument for leaving the job to someone who knows how to do it. And they (the TTC) know - in most appreciable ways besides the signalling system, these cars are highly similar to the legacy cars that do run downtown, being built on the same platform.
 
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Admiral Beez said:
We should have just dug a proper 28 km subway entirely below grade from Renforth to Kennedy and using new buys of the same Toronto Rockets we use on the Sheppard and Yonge–University Lines, or whatever trains will be bought for the 26 km Bloor-Danforth line.

If we had started a boring machine at Renforth in 2011 and stayed below ground the entire distance, minus bridge underpasses, how long would it need to get to Kennedy? I believe such machines run at about 10-15 meters per day. It's 28,000 meters as the crow flies from Renforth to Kennedy, so that's 2,800 days, or about eight years, assuming we don't run a second machine from Kennedy going westward.
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I don't disagree. I personally think the fact like 80% of the corridor is grade separated with a spur as LRT in the east makes the LRT advantage moot. Unfortunately, the decision is made and at least we'll get something that's better than a bus and at least can achieve some decent reliability with the grade separation.
 
generalcanada said:
You cant just think about bare tunnels here, the longer the line, the more rails, the more stations, the more electrical work.

I think I remember the stat as an underground station like queen/spadina nowadays is in the realm of 300-500 million for a single station

Theres like 15 stops in scarborough. Thats like an extra 5-7 billion. Thats very underestimated too
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Maybe our station don’t need to be palaces. Look at St. Patrick station, it’s just some stairs at the roadside.
subway-5122-01.jpg


Yes, we’ll need an elevator somewhere to meet modern accessibility rules, but still, we can keep it simple.
 
nfitz said:
Why?

The original plan didn't go anywhere easy of Allen Road.
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Precisely. It could have been extended later on. Going forward transit lines should be done in phases. The enormous size of this project is leading to a lot of issues.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Maybe our station don’t need to be palaces. Look at St. Patrick station, it’s just some stairs at the roadside.
subway-5122-01.jpg


Yes, we’ll need an elevator somewhere to meet modern accessibility rules, but still, we can keep it simple.
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So...cut and cover? Yea im sure that would be popular in...*checks notes* scarborough 6 lane stroads in 2015
 
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