Golfing guy
Active Member
Interesting if all multi family construction numbers were included. Calgary definitely would be up there then. Per/capita would probably be at the top. Our suburban builds are incredible
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- Thread starter Surrealplaces
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maestro
Senior Member
Highrise starts have cratered in Toronto * to the benefit of Hamilton. London pumps out a few high rises every year for as long as I can remember. That's all I know about London. Ottawa's boom appears to be expanding in 2024. Ottawa's largest employer is the federal government and the federal government is ballooning. That might have something to do with their resilience
My feelings are that quality continues to deteriorate as developers try to produce some semblance of affordability that comparing high rise construction counts is just not big enough anymore. It's also possible to deliver a 300 unit, 6 storey mid rise in under a year. (not that it happens) It's not possible with a 300 unit, 30 storey high rise.
*The urbantoronto.ca crane count has dropped from 360 at the start of the year to 310 now.
My feelings are that quality continues to deteriorate as developers try to produce some semblance of affordability that comparing high rise construction counts is just not big enough anymore. It's also possible to deliver a 300 unit, 6 storey mid rise in under a year. (not that it happens) It's not possible with a 300 unit, 30 storey high rise.
*The urbantoronto.ca crane count has dropped from 360 at the start of the year to 310 now.
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darwink
Senior Member
The thing is, good modern planning it shouldn’t explode like the Ontario cities.I get the sense it is like water building up behind a dam - once the conditions are right it will burst in Calgary (at least I hope so)
It is similar to complaining about why Anderson Station isn’t Metrotown. Metrotown is a sign of failure.
There will continue to be a healthy mix.
The ground oriented multiplex has a going to create a really neat urban form, which will provide the density necessary for organic main streets with retail based on 4(or more)-1s Almost like reestablishing the way cities were built 100 years ago.
Beltline_B
Senior Member
Ottawa's not really booming, at least in comparison to Calgary. It has more high rise towers u/c, but far less housing starts overall than Calgary. Why Ottawa has more highrises than Calgary, I don't know, but maybe like SP said, it's to do with the cost of other types of housing.
Housing starts for 2023.
| City | Single Family Home | Semi Detached | Row Housing | Apartment | Total | ...... | ...... | ...... | ...... | ............ |
| Toronto | 4721 | 328 | 4860 | 37519 | 47428 | |||||
| Vancouver | 2832 | 914 | 1922 | 27576 | 33244 | |||||
| Calgary | 5875 | 1674 | 2996 | 9034 | 19579 | |||||
| Montreal | 1021 | 208 | 342 | 13664 | 15235 | |||||
| Edmonton | 5032 | 948 | 2069 | 5135 | 13184 | |||||
| Ottawa/Gatineau | 1858 | 304 | 1727 | 8104 | 11993 | |||||
| Winnipeg | 1425 | 366 | 468 | 3195 | 5454 |
and Q1 2024
| City | SFH | semi | row | apartment | total | |||
| Toronto | 870 | 84 | 1000 | 10194 | 12148 | |||
| Vancouver | 380 | 188 | 399 | 6660 | 7627 | |||
| Calgary | 1479 | 466 | 710 | 2730 | 5385 | |||
| Edmonton | 1046 | 292 | 487 | 1662 | 3487 | |||
| Montreal | 184 | 54 | 75 | 2502 | 2815 | |||
| Ott/Gat | 268 | 40 | 242 | 1145 | 1695 | |||
| Halifax | 141 | 8 | 23 | 1540 | 1712 | |||
| Quebec | 83 | 74 | 10 | 1254 | 1421 | |||
| Winnipeg | 313 | 68 | 102 | 430 | 913 |
I haven't totaled Q2 for 2024, but Ottawa looks even slower than in Q1.
The Federal government has been expanding, but the new hires aren't centrally located in Ottawa anymore.
Since it came up I discussion, here are the numbers for Q2 2024 I put an asterisk beside Ottawa's percentage, as it appears to be an aberration. For Q1 2024, and all of 2023, apartments made up 68% of Ottawa/Gatineau's housing starts, putting it more in line with Lon/Kit/Ham.
For kicks I gathered some for Hamilton, Kitchener, and London.
2024 Q1 & Q2 and apartments percentage of total housing starts.
| City | SFH | semi | row | apartment | total | apartment % of total | ||
| Toronto | 919 | 72 | 1088 | 8302 | 10381 | 80% | ||
| Vancouver | 677 | 268 | 443 | 5263 | 6651 | 79% | ||
| Montreal | 334 | 74 | 164 | 5986 | 6558 | 91% | ||
| Calgary | 1864 | 614 | 771 | 2544 | 5793 | 44% | ||
| Edmonton | 1912 | 314 | 815 | 1920 | 4961 | 38% | ||
| Quebec | 188 | 112 | 21 | 1846 | 2167 | 85% | ||
| Halifax | 232 | 70 | 385 | 1124 | 1811 | 62% | ||
| Ott/Gat | 448 | 41 | 536 | 755 | 1780 | 42% * | ||
| Winnipeg | 421 | 104 | 96 | 958 | 1579 | 60% |
For kicks I gathered some for Hamilton, Kitchener, and London.
2024 Q1 & Q2 and apartments percentage of total housing starts.
| City | SFH | semi | row | apartment | total | apartment % of total | ||
| London | 264 | 40 | 212 | 1205 | 1721 | 70% | ||
| Kitchener/Waterloo | 214 | 10 | 333 | 1084 | 1641 | 65% | ||
| Winnipeg | 421 | 104 | 96 | 958 | 1579 | 61% |
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CT_
Active Member
JaymanBUILT has proposed a new suburb south of Seton and Rangeview on the Ricardo Ranch lands which I find EXTREMELY interesting.
The outline plan is going to the CPC on Thursday. Here are the Unit Breakdowns and Zoning Outline Plan:
The zoning is already quite good, with most of the detached having laneway garages (No front driveways) and a good chunk of mixed-use in the centre, all on a grid street layout.
Now here's where it gets interesting...
Jayman is going full European-style New Urbanist with this. I found a video information session from a few months back with some very interesting slides and renderings.
The entire community will be designed in a European Chateauesque style with a 60m central clocktower in the neighbourhood centre.
Whatever you think of the faux historical look, you have to admit, this is certainly raising the bar for new suburbs going forward.
The outline plan is going to the CPC on Thursday. Here are the Unit Breakdowns and Zoning Outline Plan:
| Low Density Detached (R-G) | 886 |
| Semi-Detached & Towns (RG, R-Gm) | 1489 |
| Multi-Residential (M-G, M1, M2, MH2, MH3) | 2106 |
| Mixed-Use (MU-1) | 1079 |
The zoning is already quite good, with most of the detached having laneway garages (No front driveways) and a good chunk of mixed-use in the centre, all on a grid street layout.
Now here's where it gets interesting...
Jayman is going full European-style New Urbanist with this. I found a video information session from a few months back with some very interesting slides and renderings.
The entire community will be designed in a European Chateauesque style with a 60m central clocktower in the neighbourhood centre.
Whatever you think of the faux historical look, you have to admit, this is certainly raising the bar for new suburbs going forward.
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outoftheice
Active Member
Looks unique! It still really bothers me Calgary hasn't increased the setbacks from the river required for development. There's an argument to be made for flood protection but really it comes down to a narrow strip of green next to the rivers doesn't do justice to how much of an asset they are to our city and how valuable a continuous park space along their banks is for Calgarians.
maestro
Senior Member
Yeah, I'm making an assumption that the high rise boom in Ottawa reflects more housing starts in Ottawa than in previous years. I would also surmise Calgary has been outpacing Ottawa in housing starts for decades. It's like saying Calgary isn't booming because it only has a fraction of the starts in Toronto. The only comparable signifying boom is Ottawa compared to Ottawa.
The Feds are not that spread out. Under Trudeau, they have become a lot less national.
Albertasaurus
Senior Member
Thanks for showing that Nostalgia plan Chinese_T. Looks like a huge step up from other recent suburban development. Really liking the Town Centre. Between Westman Village, their new Beverly Mary Resort and this, Jayman is putting Brookfield's Seton developments to shame with some really cool developments.
This DP was approved.
IanBray
Active Member
An update on this Certus multi-building commercial redevelopment project located across the street from Certus’ office.
ByeByeBaby
Active Member
The yellow area has 40% of the housing; the pink area has 60% of the housing, plus 100% of the stores and services.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
As long as they don't build a power centre nearby, this should be successful. Seton has a big power centre on the west side of the community and that seems to have killed the vision for an actual high street.
konradiical
Active Member
I hope the extend Fish Creek's trail all the way there. It seems to end at Wolf Willow or Cranston Ridge depending which way you take.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
I think the south side of the river there is a park. Fish Creek definitely ends at the Blue Devil golf course.