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UntitledCyclist said:
Meanwhile actively DRIVING in a bike lane or cycle track will cost you a whopping $65. And driving a car on a sidewalk? $90, which is the same fine levied for riding a skateboard.

I'm baffled at how low these fines are, but I imagine they are hypothetical anyway. A driver is extremely unlikely to be pulled over while driving in a bike lane by the understaffed bylaw enforcement unit. Maybe a cop could do so, as it's a driving offence, even if not governed by the HTA. Could be deemed careless driving? Or Dangerour Driving? Unclear to me.

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Cops will absolutely not stop anyone unless they see people actively being hurt. I've seen countless cars drive up with half the car on the sidewalk, forcing people with mobility devices and strollers onto a busy street. Police drive by, no tickets. I've seen cops drive by people going the wrong way on a one-way. No ticket. Actually, I have heard of a cop give a ticket for this, when my friend got one for biking on a 10m span of road the wrong way since there was no direct connection between two streets.

I wonder if there is a public accounting of the amount of by-law violations for each of these. Would be useful to see if this is just performative.
 
goreckm said:
Cops will absolutely not stop anyone unless they see people actively being hurt. I've seen countless cars drive up with half the car on the sidewalk, forcing people with mobility devices and strollers onto a busy street. Police drive by, no tickets. I've seen cops drive by people going the wrong way on a one-way. No ticket. Actually, I have heard of a cop give a ticket for this, when my friend got one for biking on a 10m span of road the wrong way since there was no direct connection between two streets.

I wonder if there is a public accounting of the amount of by-law violations for each of these. Would be useful to see if this is just performative.
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Speaking of cops, yesterday I saw a bunch of police vehicles parked on and blocking the eastbound Bloor bike lane at Balmuto (just down the street from last week's fatal collision). Perhaps it was for some sort of emergency purpose, but that appeared unlikely since the owners of said vehicles were leisurely standing on the sidewalk outside Manulife, casually talking and laughing with each other. I should add that this was taking place around evening rush hour and I observed dozens of cyclists navigating precariously around the vehicles into the busy traffic lanes. I was of half a mind to stroll up to the police officers and politely inquire as to why they were blocking the bike lanes and endangering cyclists' lives, but naturally I chickened out being the coward that I am.

The end.
 
goreckm said:
Cops will absolutely not stop anyone unless they see people actively being hurt. I've seen countless cars drive up with half the car on the sidewalk, forcing people with mobility devices and strollers onto a busy street. Police drive by, no tickets. I've seen cops drive by people going the wrong way on a one-way. No ticket. Actually, I have heard of a cop give a ticket for this, when my friend got one for biking on a 10m span of road the wrong way since there was no direct connection between two streets.
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Although they do so very much love ticketing cyclists in High Park
 
UntitledCyclist said:
Meanwhile actively DRIVING in a bike lane or cycle track will cost you a whopping $65. And driving a car on a sidewalk? $90, which is the same fine levied for riding a skateboard.

I'm baffled at how low these fines are, but I imagine they are hypothetical anyway. A driver is extremely unlikely to be pulled over while driving in a bike lane by the understaffed bylaw enforcement unit. Maybe a cop could do so, as it's a driving offence, even if not governed by the HTA. Could be deemed careless driving? Or Dangerour Driving? Unclear to me.

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Your insurance increase will be at least 20x the fine amount!
 
A dozen officers out of the city's 5,500 police officers doing bicycle safety is not an inordinate number, especially in High Park where the yellow jersey wannabe's ride in unsafe manners, putting other park users at risk.

I agree that we have an "enforcement" issue in this city, whether it's by-law enforcement, parking officers, transit security and fare enforcement, or policing. Nobody wants to clamp down on anyone, and the process required to see a ticket through to conviction is more time and effort than many agencies care to spend. And any charge laid results in counter-claims of discrimination or harassment of somebody.

Here on Park Lawn by the Ontario Food Terminal we have fast food outlets on a busy street that is signed No Stopping, but are favoured by highway transport drivers who like to park illegally to grab a double-double before they hop on the Gardiner. Not only do they block the bike lane, they also block autos, and create unsafe non-sight lines for drivers turning legally in and out of driveways. The irritating part is these same coffee shops see a steady flow of police officers, who consistently walk right by the offending 18-wheelers apparently oblivious to their presence. Complaints to various City contact points has not been successful.

I would not level similar accusations against OPP or other municipal police officers, but TPS officers clearly have a "see nothing, do nothing" culture - which is more driven by their leadership than by any fault of the individual officers.

- Paul
 
PL1 said:
That the TPS spends any effort on this while cyclists are dying *is* an issue
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You don’t think there are cyclists who act in a dangerous way?

Multiple times as a pedestrian at High Park I’ve been almost hit, even where it says yield to pedestrians…

When would it be appropriate to hand out fines to people who aren’t following the law?
 
I think the point is that a cyclist hit and killed a pedestrian once in 2014 in Toronto. Since then cars have killed roughly 4,000 people in Ontario. It's easy to see where any available traffic enforcement resources should be going first. They could move east about half a kilometre and actually do something useful.

According to Toronto police collision data, in 2019 there were 232 crashes on Parkside Drive. In 2023, there were 158, which represents a roughly 32 per cent decrease.
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Note: More people have died *on Parkside Drive* than have been killed by cyclists in Ontario in the last decades.

Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

Meanwhile actively DRIVING in a bike lane or cycle track will cost you a whopping $65. And driving a car on a sidewalk? $90, which is the same fine levied for riding a skateboard. I'm baffled at how low these fines are, but I imagine they are hypothetical anyway. A driver is extremely unlikely...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
 
evandyk said:
I think the point is that a cyclist hit and killed a pedestrian once in 2014 in Toronto. Since then cars have killed roughly 4,000 people in Ontario. It's easy to see where any available traffic enforcement resources should be going first. They could move east about half a kilometre and actually do something useful.



Note: More people have died *on Parkside Drive* than have been killed by cyclists in Ontario in the last decades.

Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

Meanwhile actively DRIVING in a bike lane or cycle track will cost you a whopping $65. And driving a car on a sidewalk? $90, which is the same fine levied for riding a skateboard. I'm baffled at how low these fines are, but I imagine they are hypothetical anyway. A driver is extremely unlikely...
urbantoronto.ca urbantoronto.ca
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So you're saying there should be zero enforcement on bikes?

There are not enough police to enforce everywhere, even for cars we have a "blitz" for certain things like seat belts focused in specific areas.

There were likely a lot of complaints around high park. Every time I visit there are a dozen tour de france wanabees going very fast and skipping stop signs. I think police visiting a handful of times a decade is reasonable?
 
turbanplanner said:
So you're saying there should be zero enforcement on bikes?

There are not enough police to enforce everywhere, even for cars we have a "blitz" for certain things like seat belts focused in specific areas.

There were likely a lot of complaints around high park. Every time I visit there are a dozen tour de france wanabees going very fast and skipping stop signs. I think police visiting a handful of times a decade is reasonable?
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That is not at all what I (or I believe Evandyk) were saying. By all means ticket the bikes blowing through stoplights and endangering pedestrians. But don't waste time ticketing cyclists who fail to put their foot down at a stop sign (I can come to a full stop and never put my foot down).
 
PL1 said:
That is not at all what I (or I believe Evandyk) were saying. By all means ticket the bikes blowing through stoplights and endangering pedestrians. But don't waste time ticketing cyclists who fail to put their foot down at a stop sign (I can come to a full stop and never put my foot down).
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I'm wondering what the break down of offenses is but I don't think you can publicly pull that from police data.

When I did my bike lane study on Bloor I found ~1 out of 10 cyclists will go the wrong direction in the bike lanes or just ride on the sidewalks. Looking at another groups results they had similar counts.
 
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