[T3G]

Will the expected new order for the west extension be for more Flexities or for the Citadis models found on other LRT projects?

There is no reason for it to be the Citadis.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

There is no reason for it to be the Citadis.

In the 1950's, the TTC had different models of PCCs, Peter WItts, and very old wooden TCR streetcars. Should be able to mix and match the Flexities and the Citadis light rail vehicles. Just as long as they can fit the platforms.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

In the 1950's, the TTC had different models of PCCs, Peter WItts, and very old wooden TCR streetcars. Should be able to mix and match the Flexities and the Citadis light rail vehicles. Just as long as they can fit the platforms.

View attachment 637238View attachment 637240

They are dimensionally compatible, but I thought the ones they have ordered so far are using a different signalling system that's incompatible.

I think it depends on Alstoms long term plans, they have two different tram models that are now basically competitors. I figure long term they'll end both families in favor of a new one that combines.tech from both

 

[duffo]

Will the expected new order for the west extension be for more Flexities or for the Citadis models found on other LRT projects?

My understanding is that the Flexity's days are numbered.

 

[APTA-2048]

I think it depends on Alstoms long term plans, they have two different tram models that are now basically competitors. I figure long term they'll end both families in favor of a new one that combines.tech from both

They seem to be building Flexities for existing contracts or orders, but new orders seem to be designated Citadis. For example Toronto and Berlin are still getting Flexities, but new orders like Philadelphia and Quebec are getting Citadis.

 

[TOtramz]

I thought the issue with running both Citadis and Flexity on line 5 was that the Citadis is significantly longer than Flexity, meaning that 3-cars of Flexity fully utilizes the platform while 2 cars of Citadis would not.

Thoughts?

 

[nfitz]

I thought the issue with running both Citadis and Flexity on line 5 was that the Citadis is significantly longer than Flexity, meaning that 3-cars of Flexity fully utilizes the platform while 2 cars of Citadis would not.

Two of the (Line 6-style) Citadises may be longer than 3 Flexitys - but the front and rear doors are set further away from the cap on the Citadis. I doubt it would make much difference.

I think for operational reasons they'd stick to the same car length - and likely the same model give the maintenance complexities and maintenance contacts.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Two of the (Line 6-style) Citadises may be longer than 3 Flexitys - but the front and rear doors are set further away from the cap on the Citadis. I doubt it would make much difference.

I think for operational reasons they'd stick to the same car length - and likely the same model give the maintenance complexities and maintenance contacts.

The platforms are.90m right? That's the same length as the confederation line's platforms above ground. The noses of the train extend beyond the above ground platforms in Ottawa, it's just lined up so that all the doors are on the platform.

It wouldn't allow what Ottawa planned for in ultimate expansion. The underground platforms are 120m, so that the Citadis can be extended by one module to make a 59m vehicle and a 118m pair.

 

[hawc]

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

They are dimensionally compatible, but I thought the ones they have ordered so far are using a different signalling system that's incompatible.

Signalling systems are drop-in parts. It's the integration with the train control software that's the key sticking point. It's like having to install the drivers and software for the brand new fancy all-in-one printer before your computer can know how to print, scan, fax, etc. with it. You can put whatever signalling system you want into the trains, but if the train control software doesn't know how to communicate with and interpret its inputs and outputs and what to do with it, it's not going to work.

 

[Steve X]

I thought the issue with running both Citadis and Flexity on line 5 was that the Citadis is significantly longer than Flexity, meaning that 3-cars of Flexity fully utilizes the platform while 2 cars of Citadis would not.

Thoughts?

I don't think anything that is longer than 30m can fit in the maintenance bay. TTC has a bay where they remove the bogie from the car. The bogies have to be in the exact same location for both fleets to be easily maintain at the same location.

This however doesn't prevent 30m Citiadis built specially to fit this line oppose to having the 48m on Finch. The can definitely install Line 5 compatible equipment instead. Think out the box. No one said they have to buy the exact trains as Line 6.

If the line will still operate with 2 car consists by Eg West's opening, they probably don't need more than 90 LRVs. If they operate with a Mt Dennis to Laird short turn with 3 minutes headway while the outer ends operate at 6 min, the current 76 would be enough. If they operate with 3 car consist with a 3 min headway on the entire line, they would need close to 130 LRVs.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Signalling systems are drop-in parts. It's the integration with the train control software that's the key sticking point. It's like having to install the drivers and software for the brand new fancy all-in-one printer before your computer can know how to print, scan, fax, etc. with it. You can put whatever signalling system you want into the trains, but if the train control software doesn't know how to communicate with and interpret its inputs and outputs and what to do with it, it's not going to work.

All true. I didn't mean the Citadis couldn't be made compatible, I meant that the current ones for Metrolinx are spec'd for Line 6 and 10, and I thought I read here on this forum they are using a different system.

Assuming that's true, it would be quite a bit of work to shift any of the current Citadii to Line 5, and it would be way easier for Metrolinx to keep ordering Flexities for Line 5 fleet expansion, as they already have the software written, making it unlikely we'll see Citadii on Eglinton unless Alstom decides to kill off the model

 

[TOtramz]

I don't think anything that is longer than 30m can fit in the maintenance bay. TTC has a bay where they remove the bogie from the car. The bogies have to be in the exact same location for both fleets to be easily maintain at the same location.

This however doesn't prevent 30m Citiadis built specially to fit this line oppose to having the 48m on Finch. The can definitely install Line 5 compatible equipment instead. Think out the box. No one said they have to buy the exact trains as Line 6.

If the line will still operate with 2 car consists by Eg West's opening, they probably don't need more than 90 LRVs. If they operate with a Mt Dennis to Laird short turn with 3 minutes headway while the outer ends operate at 6 min, the current 76 would be enough. If they operate with 3 car consist with a 3 min headway on the entire line, they would need close to 130 LRVs.

you're assuming that no LRV will get totalled by oncoming cars on the surface section.......

I think this is not really a big issue unless Alstom decides to stop making Flexities.

 

[T3G]

you're assuming that no LRV will get totalled by oncoming cars on the surface section.......

Has there ever been a tram, anywhere, in the history of the entire world, that has been totalled by a car? It's almost universally the car that ends up being a write off. They'll bang out the dents and the tram will be back in service in a few days.

A truck, sure. But those collisions are much rarer.

 

[crs1026]

Has there ever been a tram, anywhere, in the history of the entire world, that has been totalled by a car? It's almost universally the car that ends up being a write off. They'll bang out the dents and the tram will be back in service in a few days.

A truck, sure. But those collisions are much rarer.

An early start to the trend....yes, it's a truck, but....

- Paul