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turbanplanner said:
As someone with family in the worst stretch, it sucks that the train can't do that much for people west or north of Timmins
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It really won't do much for me either, living in the Sudbury area. However, just like others stated, it will be great for gathering data for any potential future expansions. Maybe those areas see a train as well.
 
micheal_can said:
That is why I feel it is almost a fantasy.


If the owners of HCR were wanting to fold it, and if the province saw it as something that should not be abandoned, then, maybe it gets folded into ONR. HCR and OVR have such low traffic that one day I could see them shutting down due to lack of funds. What is really needed is industrial investment along those lines to make them viable on their own. That in turn means a prosperous Northern ON. Maybe a BYD car plant?
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Setting aside my view that the Canadian market is likely too small to justify our own plant (apart from a drastic shift in US policy), the problem with locating non-resource based manufacturing in the north, particularly one that depends on high volume, is the distance from labour, inputs (parts) and market. Probably one of the largest, Alstom (ex-Bombardier) couldn't survive without a level of government being an almost guaranteed customer.
 
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lenaitch said:
Setting aside my view that the Canadian market is likely too small to justify our own plant (apart from a drastic shift in US policy), the problem with locating non-resource based manufacturing in the north, particularly one that depends on high volume, is the distance from labour, inputs (parts) and market. Probably one of the largest, Alstom (ex-Bombardier) couldn't survive without a level of government being an almost guaranteed customer.
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Oh, I know the many reasons it is a struggle. However, the continued sprawl onto prime farmland is why somewhere in Northern ON does make sense. With EVs, you may have government support for their fleet vehicles. Locally, I know our city has a few EVs and PHEVs. So, they may be in the market for them. And,if they do go as good as is feared, then having them built locally with local workers can change mindsets. The other thing is, it would be more a North American Market. Mexico does allow them. The next USA government may allow them too.
 
micheal_can said:
Oh, I know the many reasons it is a struggle. However, the continued sprawl onto prime farmland is why somewhere in Northern ON does make sense. With EVs, you may have government support for their fleet vehicles. Locally, I know our city has a few EVs and PHEVs. So, they may be in the market for them. And,if they do go as good as is feared, then having them built locally with local workers can change mindsets. The other thing is, it would be more a North American Market. Mexico does allow them. The next USA government may allow them too.
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The amount of "struggle" an industry is willing to endure is indirectly proportional to the anticipated financial return (tempered to a degree by the amount of public money they can siphon off).

I couldn't find a decent source for the size of public fleets in Ontario or Canada, but I suspect that, in terms of a typical auto plant output, they are a rounding error in terms of annual purchasing. Public fleets range from passenger vehicle/SUV 'admin' vehicles to buses, dump trucks and fire trucks. Many governments have a few, but I see no indication any of the latter group of large, commercial vehicles are finding a foothold and certainly not something like what BYD is producing.
 
lenaitch said:
The amount of "struggle" an industry is willing to endure is indirectly proportional to the anticipated financial return (tempered to a degree by the amount of public money they can siphon off).

I couldn't find a decent source for the size of public fleets in Ontario or Canada, but I suspect that, in terms of a typical auto plant output, they are a rounding error in terms of annual purchasing. Public fleets range from passenger vehicle/SUV 'admin' vehicles to buses, dump trucks and fire trucks. Many governments have a few, but I see no indication any of the latter group of large, commercial vehicles are finding a foothold and certainly not something like what BYD is producing.
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One argument to that would be the Crown Victoria's that were made solely in St Thomas and were not sold publicly for years. For every argument against something, there is something that exists or has existed that shows otherwise. I would love investment in Northern ON outside of resource extraction, but I also know it likely won't happen.
 
micheal_can said:
One argument to that would be the Crown Victoria's that were made solely in St Thomas and were not sold publicly for years. For every argument against something, there is something that exists or has existed that shows otherwise. I would love investment in Northern ON outside of resource extraction, but I also know it likely won't happen.
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I'm not sure what argument you are trying to make. After 2008, the Crown Victoria/Police interceptor was only offered for fleet sales. Ford had a dominant but not exclusive position in the police and taxi market in North America. Even at that, they couldn't justify keeping a plant running. I have no idea what their sales numbers were for both their police and taxi markets towards the end. I recall being at a meeting where somebody from Ford was reported to have said if they had exclusive access to the police/taxi market, they would have continued the line. Of course, no public body would commit to that; if for no other reason than this is not singular 'public body' that could. Besides, the platform was quite dated.
 
Bordercollie said:
Northlander has a better chance of succeeding if introduced properly | Sudbury Star https://share.google/3SquW7nROFUrVwgpi

Sounds like they have shunt enhancers to avoid speed restrictions
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The author is a member here - you should ask him.

NorthernTracks said:
Success or failure depends how the Northlander is reintroduced
https://northerntracks.blog/2026/01...-depends-how-the-northlander-is-reintroduced/
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I suppose it should have been raised in that post, but it is unclear if shunt enhancers are certified for use in Canada. I am under the understanding that the communications/continuity problem is only an issue with certain crossing technology and that only a small number of crossings on the Bala sub would be impacted.

As for why certain communities don't get a station stop, there are several communities that don't get one. It's not a commuter train.

Beaverton: I agree that either it or Brechin would be a good candidate, certainly over Washago, but that would entail negotiations with both CN and Durham Region/Brock Township for infrastructure, access, parking, etc. that perhaps they figured wasn't worth the effort.
Cobalt: I'm not sure why another station about 7 Euclidian km from another station would be a good idea.
Iroquois Falls: It's not on the main line.
 
lenaitch said:
The author is a member here - you should ask him.



I suppose it should have been raised in that post, but it is unclear if shunt enhancers are certified for use in Canada. I am under the understanding that the communications/continuity problem is only an issue with certain crossing technology and that only a small number of crossings on the Bala sub would be impacted.

As for why certain communities don't get a station stop, there are several communities that don't get one. It's not a commuter train.

Beaverton: I agree that either it or Brechin would be a good candidate, certainly over Washago, but that would entail negotiations with both CN and Durham Region/Brock Township for infrastructure, access, parking, etc. that perhaps they figured wasn't worth the effort.
Cobalt: I'm not sure why another station about 7 Euclidian km from another station would be a good idea.
Iroquois Falls: It's not on the main line.
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Correct, shunt enhancers were added to the train sets. However I wanted to keep the column easy to understand for the average person, hence the term equipment.

Durham Region put together and submitted a feasibility study to the province requesting a stop in Beaverton. Details are here:


There's one reason Cobalt might make sense, the train is serving Temiskaming Shores in the middle of the night. Local transit doesn't operate during those hours (which serves Dymond, New Liskeard, Haileybury and Cobalt). Let's not forget that seniors, students, medical patients and people who have paralysis are going to be the primary clientele of the train, some of whom can't drive or don't have access to a vehicle. At 7 km from New Liskeard, it's a stretch, sure. But it's not dissimilar to the distance between Bracebridge and Gravenhurst (granted, larger population). I included Cobalt because there are people in the community who have written letters about it.

Porquis Junction is on the main line and is situated within Iroquois Falls town limits. I wrote Iroquois Falls because most people are more familiar with that name.
 
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NorthernTracks said:
Correct, shunt enhancers were added to the train sets. However I wanted to keep the column easy to understand for the average person, hence the term equipment.

Durham Region put together and submitted a feasibility study to the province requesting a stop in Beaverton. Details are here:


There's one reason Cobalt might make sense, the train is serving Temiskaming Shores in the middle of the night. Local transit doesn't operate during those hours (which serves Dymond, New Liskeard, Haileybury and Cobalt). Let's not forget that seniors, students, medical patients and people who have paralysis are going to be the primary clientele of the train, some of whom can't drive or don't have access to a vehicle. At 7 km from New Liskeard, it's a stretch, sure. But it's not dissimilar to the distance between Bracebridge and Gravenhurst (granted, larger population). I included Cobalt because there are people in the community who have written letters about it.

Porquis Junction is on the main line and is situated within Iroquois Falls town limits. I wrote Iroquois Falls because most people are more familiar with that name.
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So you are saying shunt enhancers are available and certified for use in Canada (or at least by CN)? Does VIA know this? Why would they be going through the gymnastics they are doing if it could be solved simply by the addition of an existing part?

Good on Durham for doing the legwork. It seems the Ontario government either wasn't interested or heard from CN that it was a non-starter.
 
lenaitch said:
So you are saying shunt enhancers are available and certified for use in Canada (or at least by CN)? Does VIA know this? Why would they be going through the gymnastics they are doing if it could be solved simply by the addition of an existing part?

Good on Durham for doing the legwork. It seems the Ontario government either wasn't interested or heard from CN that it was a non-starter.
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I'm going by what a spokesperson from the MTO responded to me via email. I don't know anything else.
 
reaperexpress said:
If Shunt Enhancers are in fact installed on the ONR trains (and it wasn't a misunderstanding by MTO) this would be huge news for Via, who has been saying it's impossible to install shunt enhancers because they're not approved for use in Canada
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This could be the method of certifying them for use in Canada.
 
reaperexpress said:
If Shunt Enhancers are in fact installed on the ONR trains (and it wasn't a misunderstanding by MTO) this would be huge news for Via, who has been saying it's impossible to install shunt enhancers because they're not approved for use in Canada
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Ya, I'm a little suspicious, given that the VIA-related coverage has made no mention of it.

micheal_can said:
This could be the method of certifying them for use in Canada.
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How so? I have no clue what the process would be but I doubt installing them on in-service passenger trains to see what happens isn't it.
 
lenaitch said:
Ya, I'm a little suspicious, given that the VIA-related coverage has made no mention of it.


How so? I have no clue what the process would be but I doubt installing them on in-service passenger trains to see what happens isn't it.
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Some trains are used as test beds for new technologies. With the need for a solution in Canada with these trains, putting it on a train that can be horribly late but still be acceptable, they have the chance to see whether they work or not. This train will be shorter than Via's.
 
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