[CDL.TO]

Spacing reported a few days ago that the green roof at Eglinton West is complete.

Link to article

Personally, although I think it's a good idea overall, I hope it doesn't requite a big increase in maintenance budgets. Also, the railings and staircase have completely destroyed the look of the station from outside.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

night and day: a green roofed subway station in the middle of an expressway!

 

[vegeta_skyline]

night and day: a green roofed subway station in the middle of an expressway!

It (Allen rd.) anit much of an expressway though.

 

[Second_in_pie]

The thing that disappoints me with most green roves is that sure it's a green roof, but there's usually no way for the public to actually get on it or see it!

A green roofed subway station would be so many times cooler if there were stairs or a door from the concourse to get on it. Are there at least windows to look out at the roof?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

It (Allen rd.) anit much of an expressway though.

it was designed to be the spadina expressway. even though it didn't succeed and is now called allen road, by design and use, it is still very expressway-ish and probably not the best place for a subway or subway stations.

just my opinion.

 

[CDL.TO]

Are there at least windows to look out at the roof?

Yup.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Oh. Well I guess that's good. Oddly enough, I've never been inside Eglinton West, and I've only got off Allen at Eglinton like once.

Maybe a subway station was a bad example. It definitely applies for condos, apartments and office buildings, as a green roof is a great chance for a rooftop garden or something, but instead they're usually not advertised so much as public spaces.

it was designed to be the spadina expressway. even though it didn't succeed and is now called allen road, by design and use, it is still very expressway-ish and probably not the best place for a subway or subway stations.

just my opinion.

Yeah, Allen Road is very much an expressway. But I don't think it's a super-horrible place to put a subway. If it wasn't for the Spadina line, Yonge would be so horribly overcrowded that it makes me shudder just to think about it. It does a pretty good job of being a western DRL, and takes a lot of pressure of Yonge. I'm not sure if this was the intention when it was built, but I think it's pretty useful.

I guess it also connects with Yorkdale, which is a pretty large trip generator, and could end up getting a lot more traffic once more connections are built around the line (Spadina Extension, Sheppard West, Eglinton, Finch.)

I have to say, Allen Road is WAY more useless than the Spadina Line is. Actually, I think it must rank up somewhere in the list of stupidest road/expressway planning in the entire world. It basically exists to dump half the 401 on the narrowest part of Eglinton and is brutally congested half the time.

I don't want to sound like a car-believer (I don't believe in cars,) but if the choice was between what we have now, and having highways, freeways and expressways (I'm not sure if there's a difference between the three) crisscrossing Toronto, I have to say I'd go with the expressways. If it was between that and the gradual expansion of our subway network, of course I'd go for subways. But we haven't gotten gradual expansion of our subway network, and with a lack of subways and a lack of expressways, what are we left with?

 

[unimaginative2]

I don't want to sound like a car-believer (I don't believe in cars,) but if the choice was between what we have now, and having highways, freeways and expressways (I'm not sure if there's a difference between the three) crisscrossing Toronto, I have to say I'd go with the expressways. If it was between that and the gradual expansion of our subway network, of course I'd go for subways. But we haven't gotten gradual expansion of our subway network, and with a lack of subways and a lack of expressways, what are we left with?

A pretty successful city.

It's a tragedy that we've slowed our infrastructure investment so dramatically, but I don't think there's any case to be made that the city would be a better place if they had finished Spadina or the Crosstown.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Well it's not like fleshing out the Expressways would have turned Toronto into New York, but it might help with some of the incredible congestion we're dealing with now.

 

[Northern Light]

Referendum on Allen Road

Since this thread is morphing into a Referendum on Allen Road, my 2 cents.

Allen Road/Spadina Expressway was a terrible idea, that did horrendous damage.

Must of what is wrong in Lawrence Heights was caused by the isolating and dividing impact this road/highway has; which only would have been worse had it been longer, wider and busier.

Morever, it resulted in the burial of the creek that traversed the Cedarvale Ravine, an asinine decision that should be reversed.

****

Because the Spadina line was in essence an afterthought to the killing of the 'Spadina Expressway', it followed the proposed alignment.

While not a terrible alignment, it isn't great; and this is shown by the under performing ridership figures even to this day; but particularly in the first 2 decades of operation.

The alignment should logically have followed Bathurst or Dufferin or some combination thereof.

I would argue for St. Clair West station right at the corner of St. Clair & Bathurst, then service north to an Eglinton Station at Eglinton & Bathurst, then jogging to Dufferin there (or at Lawrence) and following Dufferin Street up.

That said, a fix of that scale is not on the table now, nor is it likely to be in the next 50 years.

**********

Here's what I think can be done. Take the North leg of Dufferin (@ Sheppard) and do whatever you need to do to connect it seemlessly to Dufferin Street's southern leg (instead of Allen Road). If the runways @ Downsview are preserved, this likely means a tunnel.

Then take the Allen south of Sheppard, and fill the culvert back in, burying the subway and eliminating, not tunneling the current road.

Stations with windows could have a small open area preserved around them.

On top, build a new local Road, 1 lane each way, plus bike lanes, from close to Sheppard to Eglinton, meeting all major and minor streets at grade.

This reconnects the Beltline trail and connects Lawrence Heights with adjacent areas.

It also then frees up the remainng land for intensified new development right over the subway, and a smattering of new parks where needed.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

sorry for getting so off topic CDL

Yeah, Allen Road is very much an expressway. But I don't think it's a super-horrible place to put a subway. If it wasn't for the Spadina line, Yonge would be so horribly overcrowded that it makes me shudder just to think about it. It does a pretty good job of being a western DRL, and takes a lot of pressure of Yonge. I'm not sure if this was the intention when it was built, but I think it's pretty useful.

they had better alternatives that they never used. there were plans in the 60's to build a subway line up the rail corridor in the west end all the way up to weston (something that we probably can't do these days due to regulations. it would have been grandfathered in). had they built the line, we could have had a subway to the airport already. i wonder if alot of the low/mid/high rises built in weston in the 60's were built in anticipation of a subway line that never came?

what could have been...

 

[kettal]

Well it's not like fleshing out the Expressways would have turned Toronto into New York, but it might help with some of the incredible congestion we're dealing with now.

New York? No. Detroit, yes.

Congestion is a sign of a healthy city. The only cities without it are dumps. Too many expressways cause urban decay.

 

[Whoaccio]

I doubt building the Spadina expressway would have changed Toronto very much. Kensington Market wouldn't exist, which would be a shame, but Toronto wouldn't have become Detroit or something. The CBD would probably be healthier and less employment would have located to the NW suburbs, but once again most of the City wouldn't be noticeably different. I live fairly close to the Allan and unless you live directly facing it, it hasn't effected nearby neighborhoods at all*. Crossing a bridge for 20m is generally not a very traumatic experience. Montreal has much more extensive highway network and both transport and quality of life seem healthy and comparable to Toronto.

*Lawrence Heights doesn't suck because it is near the Allan, it sucks because it is full of poor people with no opportunities in life, just like Regent Park doesn't suck because it is bisected by the Dundas car. If you built Lawrence Heights as far away from an expressway as possible, it would still suck.

Congestion is a sign of a healthy city. The only cities without it are dumps. Too many expressways cause urban decay.

Congestion is not the sign of a healthy city, it is just the sign of poor planning.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I doubt building the Spadina expressway would have changed Toronto very much. Kensington Market wouldn't exist, which would be a shame, but Toronto wouldn't have become Detroit or something. The CBD would probably be healthier and less employment would have located to the NW suburbs, but once again most of the City wouldn't be noticeably different. I live fairly close to the Allan and unless you live directly facing it, it hasn't effected nearby neighborhoods at all*. Crossing a bridge for 20m is generally not a very traumatic experience. Montreal has much more extensive highway network and both transport and quality of life seem healthy and comparable to Toronto.

*Lawrence Heights doesn't suck because it is near the Allan, it sucks because it is full of poor people with no opportunities in life, just like Regent Park doesn't suck because it is bisected by the Dundas car. If you built Lawrence Heights as far away from an expressway as possible, it would still suck.



Congestion is not the sign of a healthy city, it is just the sign of poor planning.

Building the Spadina Expressway would have destroyed Spadina Avenue. More buildings would have been replaced with parking lots. And downtown would be deserted at night and weekends, like most American cities.

 

[Chuck]

Firstly, kudos to the TTC for reducing the ecological footprint of one of their buildings. Green roofs also save money by prolonging the lifespan of the roofing materials, so this is a win win situation.

Secondly, although I do agree that the proposed route of the Spadina Expressway was a terrible selection, I do think that it's unfortunate that infrastructure expansion of any kind - including transit - came to a grinding halt in the 1970s. The fact of the matter is that transportation capacity into the city desperately needs to be expanded, and it's highly unfortunate that the end of inner city freeway construction did NOT result in massive transit spending instead.

We are stuck with a transportation system straight out of the 1970s, designed for a GTA of 3 million people. It's no wonder gridlock exists in this city! I almost feel that as bad as the Spadina Expressway may have been, it would at least have been the only measure in 40 years that made it easier to get downtown. The northwest GTA has no direct highway access into downtown. There's also a 30 km gap in GO service between Maple and Brampton. At least the damn highway would have been something.