[OttoSchloss]

you are not able to get over your bitterness? please don't ruin the thread. i am not here to re-enact the petty canadian regional wars so routinely fed to us by the media.

pity. they tend to be fun!

 

[syn]

Old Montreal certainly looks European, but I've never found Montreal to have that European feel that everyone mentions. I find a lot of it reminds me of Toronto, and not in a bad way. It's certainly unique though, and a great city.

They've certainly played upon European stereotypes for their marketing though, which has been very successful.

 

[gristle]

Montreal is not like an American city since American cities can differ from one and other quite significantly.

The idea that Montreal is "European" is an illusion. Old Montreal is a small part of Montreal. Most of the city in no way resembles what is to be found in that small part of the city (and that is not a put-down, but a mere statement of fact).

There are language tensions to be found in Montreal - and there have been tensions for decades, but they are hardly the dominant feature of that city.

 

[Archivist]

I've always found Montreal to be rather ... Canadian, actually. I always thought that Quebecois will only become comfortable with their strong rest-of-Canada ties some time after they separate, if they do. Until then, there will always be tensions.

I agree with all three of Gristly's comments.

 

[UserNameToronto]

The OP is trying to argue MTL is like an American city because it's similar to Baltimore, et al.

I'm not so sure Baltimore represents an American cities as a whole. If we look at the cities that have had the most postwar growth (LA, Dallas, Houston), then sprawl would be a defining characteristic. So if these are taken to be the most "American" city, than wouldn't sprawlfest Calgary be the Canadian counterpart?

 

[Tewder]

you are not able to get over your bitterness? please don't ruin the thread. i am not here to re-enact the petty canadian regional wars so routinely fed to us by the media.

Yet this comment gets a pass from you:

Oh it's a very good thing indeed. Rather than explore the overwhelmingly bland urban landscapes of cities like Winnipeg, Cleveland, <<insert most mid-large cities here>> one can visit Montreal for a truly refreshing take on North American culture. From my point of view the vibe is fantastic, the food blows Toronto's away, the night life is a huge step up from everything else and the shopping is great, everything I would want for a weekend visit. As for living there, well I wouldn't know as I've never done that.

Montrealers hate the French? Talk about a gross generalisation. That would be exactly like saying that Torontonians hate the British. Some of us have some problems with snob Parisians, but who doesn't on this planet, including non-Parisian French themselves?

'um so you're admonishing me for making a blanket statement by making one yourself about Parisians? I love Parisians for that matter. What makes them 'snobs'? Their accent?? Their style? Their cultural formality? This is part of what makes them French, no?

Look, Quebec's a great place, really. It's just not particularly French no matter what the Quebec tourist bureau so desperately wants us to believe.

I'm agreeing with Kool Maudit. Montreal is an American city with American people who speak French with an American accent. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[grey]

I think Hamilton, Ontario more closely resembles an American city than anything else we've got.

 

[kool maudit]

'um so you're admonishing me for making a blanket statement by making one yourself about Parisians? I love Parisians for that matter. What makes them 'snobs'? Their accent?? Their style? Their cultural formality? This is part of what makes them French, no?

Look, Quebec's a great place, really. It's just not particularly French no matter what the Quebec tourist bureau so desperately wants us to believe.

I'm agreeing with Kool Maudit. Montreal is an American city with American people who speak French with an American accent. Nothing wrong with that.

my feeling was that martin was referring to a sub-type and not the whole. i agree with this, though: "Montreal is an American city with American people who speak French with an American accent."

perhaps it is just too subtle for ads in enroute magazine.

 

[grey]

From my point of view the vibe is fantastic, the food blows Toronto's away,

Interesting. I agree that the night life and shopping are great, but I've found the restaurant and cafe scene in Montreal to be farrrrr inferior to Toronto's in both variety and quality. I think it probably depends strongly on what you're expecting. I suppose Montreal is best at comfort food, and plain rural Quebec-inspired meat, potatoes, and bagels kind of thing. But I had a very hard time finding good coffee, let alone the fancy/pretentious, artistic, and delicious fare we take for granted here.

I also expected to be blown away by their design industry, but that seems to have fled along with most of the financial sector. A lot of the design shops and things I saw felt firmly stuck in the mid-1990s. In fact, I was surprised that there was enough ~design~ in the city to warrant an entire series of those Design Lines magazines that we have around here, so I must be visiting the wrong areas.

Their Jazz festival blows ours out of the water, for sure. We really need to get our act together.

If you can suggest some stuff to visit, I'd be thrilled, because I love visiting Montreal

 

[flar]

I also think Hamilton is one of the most American Canadian cities-in built form and in culture. It makes sense, Hamilton's earliest residents mostly came from New York and New England and then once it got going, it became the preferred location for American branch plants. It developed and suffered in the same way as American rust belt cities with declining industry but with a Canadian twist: instead of abandoning the city for greener pastures (ie, the sunbelt) Hamiltonians took advantage of the Canadian social safety net and 60s/70s social housing and stayed. Hamilton's lower city doesn't have abanonded residential but is disproportionately poor. Hamilton does have huge swaths of abandoned commercial and industrial buildings.

 

[flar]

Now that I live in Ottawa and work in Quebec, I have started to better understand that there are substantial differences between French and English Canada. I am convinced Quebec is a distinct society, probably should be its own nation, but I personally would like to keep Quebec in the federation. I can understand the fears that Quebec's culture is in danger in the face of the onslaught of American English culture, but I'm amazed at how well it survives and how insular it can be. Quebec's culture has survived much better in the face of American influence than English Canadian culture (if there is such a thing--I have my doubts that Canadian culture is anything more than something contrived in the faint hope of differentiating us from Americans).

 

[kool maudit]

quebec separation would be a horrible process, with lots of spite and bad faith dealings... but, really, were canada and quebec already separate, i wouldn't exactly be arguing for them to join.

 

[OttoSchloss]

The OP is trying to argue MTL is like an American city because it's similar to Baltimore, et al.

I'm not so sure Baltimore represents an American cities as a whole. If we look at the cities that have had the most postwar growth (LA, Dallas, Houston), then sprawl would be a defining characteristic. So if these are taken to be the most "American" city, than wouldn't sprawlfest Calgary be the Canadian counterpart?

Baltimore is the first "American" city. Which is to say, it was the first city post 1776 planned and laid out according to the new American reality. I like the built form of Baltimore but not necessarily what happened to the city. It's kind of trashy but I still do like it.

 

[OttoSchloss]

quebec separation would be a horrible process, with lots of spite and bad faith dealings... but, really, were canada and quebec already separate, i wouldn't exactly be arguing for them to join.

That spite and bad faith dealings would probably be the only thing to satisfy western Canada. Sad but true.

But I do think Quebec should be its own nation as well and if not, just decentralize the whole country to the point where the only things shared are a currency and monetary policy -but not economies nor their spoils (I seriously don't think all that many people really feel all that "Canadian" anymore anyway). But ironically I think the nation of Quebec survives precisely because it's a part of the Canadian reality and without that buffer, it's not realistic to assume it would be very successful as a country of 8 million surrounded by almost 400 million English and Spanish speakers.

 

[Ummagumma66]

The OP is trying to argue MTL is like an American city because it's similar to Baltimore, et al.

I'm not so sure Baltimore represents an American cities as a whole. If we look at the cities that have had the most postwar growth (LA, Dallas, Houston), then sprawl would be a defining characteristic. So if these are taken to be the most "American" city, than wouldn't sprawlfest Calgary be the Canadian counterpart?

I'd say Calgary was Canada's most American city. I'd even go one step further, Alberta is Canada's most American Province.