[Rainforest]

... LRT is the worse possible option. It has the lowest capacity and will cost more than any of the alternatives whether they be standard subway, SKyTrain or monorail due to none of those 3 technologies will require "raising the roof" on the current SRT stations which is a waste of both time and money.

I doubt that "raising the roof" is a major cost. Around 2009, Metrolinx completed an SRT extension study, with cost estimate for both the ICTS option and LRT option. The total costs came up very close (ICTS actually being a little bit higher). If raising the roof was a major cost, then ICTS should have come up cheaper.

It is probably true that ICTS / SkyTrain, or another kind of high-floor light metro, would have somewhat higher capacity limit than LRT, for the given station geometry. Trains ordered for Eglinton would have too many cabs (2 per car, hence 6 per train) when really only 2 outermost cabs are needed.

This, however, can be fixed in future, by ordering tightly coupled new trains with 2 cabs per train when the first bunch is close to retirement.

 

[CharmAlarm]

Meanwhile, in the real world...

http://spacingtoronto.ca/2012/01/09/lorinc-don-drummond-will-mess-up-rob-fords-plans/

 

[Justin10000]

What you are saying makes sense except you are forgetting one thing.............Metrolinx and the TTC want the line to be automated. You cannot have any automated system without total grade separation

San Franscisco's LRV's are completely automated in the tunnels,and when they emerge from the tunnels, operators take over. Total grade separation is not required for automatic operation.

 

[Voltz]

Meanwhile, in the real world...

http://spacingtoronto.ca/2012/01/09/lorinc-don-drummond-will-mess-up-rob-fords-plans/

Since the province is obviously looking for cuts to be made and the Eglinton plan is a prime target due to its enormous cost, I think what is going to happen is if city council does not revert back to the original plan in time then the province is going to unbury the eastern part of Eglinton and leave the other lines cut, since cutting funding under the original plan will mean cancelling lines.

 

[nfitz]

Since the province is obviously looking for cuts to be made and the Eglinton plan is a prime target due to its enormous cost...

Is it though? Metrolinx's plans were divided into two parts. 2011 to 2015 and 2016 to 2020. I thought the second part was funded from Metrolinx's future revenue generation tool (whatever they decide it will be), and only the 2011 to 2015 was counted as a capital expense for the province. I thought the timing of Eglinton was such, that there wasn't that much of the surface LRT (and now underground bit) that was going to be in the 2011 to 2015 timeframe. At the same time, Finch was entirely post-2015.

If the province needs to reduce capital expenditure to save our credit rating, then I don't think, on paper, that cutting the eastern underground portion of Eglinton (which remains pretty much post 2015) would actually gain them anything.

But I haven't actually seen the budget documents - maybe I'm assuming too much.

 

[Dan416]

If this forces them to be creative about how to deal with the eastern portion, that's good. If it means going back to the old plan (which is like 100% not going to happen with Ford in power, by the way) it'd be stupid.

What I foresee happening, if cuts are to be made, is it'll either be at-grade but not having to stop for traffic lights or getting in the way of traffic, or elevated, or trenched. It will definitely not run in the middle of the road, that'd be anathema to the Fords (and me).

If they can't figure out how to do that, though, then they will just build the originally tunnelled portion and leave out the eastern portion. Which will leave the SRT orphaned yet again.

I do not know why the LRTistas are so gleeful about this supposed impending cut though. If Miller were still in power, these cuts would be either the SELRT or FWLRT or ECLRT. It's basically a no-win for anyone.

 

[junctionist]

What silver lining is there to this? We're not going to get the transit plan blanketing the city with on-street ROW LRT, and now we might not even get the subway LRT alternative? It's on Eglinton where the speed and reliability of grade-separated transit is logical. Rallying against the Crosstown at this point is just pushing transit expansion in Toronto to the barest minimum. Any savings by on-street LRT are merely going to go towards cutting the provincial deficit. The Crosstown in its current form will be an excellent transit project that link urban centres and suburbs in the important central part of the city. One might as well support it.

 

[44 North]

If they can't figure out how to do that, though, then they will just build the originally tunnelled portion and leave out the eastern portion. Which will leave the SRT orphaned yet again.

I actually foresee this, too. But with the SRT being replaced. Maybe someone else had this thought, too. But as history shows us, Toronto will get a left with a disjointed, unfinished mess once again. So my bet is the original underground LRT between Keele and Laird, and a completed S(L)RT. I'd prefer ROW than nothing connecting the two projects, but that fate is up to the transit gods.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Toronto will get nothing again.

Toronto and Detroit = two cities with no plans for the future.

 

[M II A II R II K]

The SRT wouldn't get orphaned if that ended up being the case with Eglinton. They would extend the subway or make a GO ALRT on that GO Line. I hardly think there would be a pointless transfer created once again.

 

[gweed123]

I actually foresee this, too. But with the SRT being replaced. Maybe someone else had this thought, too. But as history shows us, Toronto will get a left with a disjointed, unfinished mess once again. So my bet is the original underground LRT between Keele and Laird, and a completed S(L)RT. I'd prefer ROW than nothing connecting the two projects, but that fate is up to the transit gods.

But at least it will be a disjointed mess at two ends instead of one, which will mean that any pro-transit (or even transit natural) mayoral candidate will see the value in finishing the project.

But I think Metrolinx will come through on this one. The Crosstown is their centrepiece, and they don't to see their centrepiece left unfinished, or left dying on the table. It may not be the best solution, but I think they'll come up with something workable.

And I think things will get a lot clearer in the next couple of months. If Ford's Sheppard Subway dies in Council, then Metrolinx and the Province can proceed without needing any "input" from Ford, as his opinion will be basically redundant.

This means that Metrolinx can do what they want with the eastern section, which would likely mean some type of grade separation other than tunnelling.

 

[44 North]

"some type of grade separation other than tunnelling."

Exactly what I'm looking for. Frees-up funding for other projects (or extending west of Keele), and keeps it as RT.

 

[gweed123]

"some type of grade separation other than tunnelling."

Exactly what I'm looking for. Frees-up funding for other projects (or extending west of Keele), and keeps it as RT.

Bingo. But that would require some creative thinking, something I think that at this point only Metrolinx is prepared to do. If Ford's Sheppard Subway gets shot down, his grip on the TTC will be much looser, giving Metrolinx a bigger role in planning projects.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Can Metronlix still go with the Original plan exentding the LRT to Hwy2 and then Extend the Bloor Danforth line the the STC/Sheppard East Gweed?

 

[Eug]

I still don't see why Sheppard matters at all to the Eglinton X-town. As far as I'm concerned, Sheppard was dead right from the day it was announced, but the Eglinton X-town including the Eastern buried portion actually seems like a viable plan.