[denfromoakvillemilton]

Thanks for posting these.

They just keep making this project better and better. My two biggest beefs with the central section of the line have been resolved. Not very much that I would change now from Mount Dennis to Don Mills (other than actually taking into account the DRL in the layout of Don Mills Station).

Now if they can focus on doing something about the eastern section of the line, especially considering that the Auditor General's report on the Metrolinx MOU concluded that they agreed that at-grade portions of the line would affect the reliability of the entire line, and thus the line should be separated from traffic.

I still think there's time to float the idea of the City paying the cost difference and elevating the east portion of the line through the Golden Mile, especially if that means they can run the ECLRT and the SLRT as a single thru-line.

They are actually trying to make this work. I wish the connection to the airport was being built now.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Thanks for posting these.

They just keep making this project better and better. My two biggest beefs with the central section of the line have been resolved. Not very much that I would change now from Mount Dennis to Don Mills (other than actually taking into account the DRL in the layout of Don Mills Station).

Now if they can focus on doing something about the eastern section of the line, especially considering that the Auditor General's report on the Metrolinx MOU concluded that they agreed that at-grade portions of the line would affect the reliability of the entire line, and thus the line should be separated from traffic.

I still think there's time to float the idea of the City paying the cost difference and elevating the east portion of the line through the Golden Mile, especially if that means they can run the ECLRT and the SLRT as a single thru-line.

They are actually trying to make this work. I wish the connection to the airport was being built now.

 

[Solid Snake]

Slowly but surely, this line is getting 100% grade separated. With Miller out of the picture who absolutely wanted the LRT on the streets, they aren't going to meet any opposition to make it a "metro" line.

I like that Metrolinx seems to LISTEN to the population while Miller and Giambrone wouldn't listen to anyone to protect their pet project.

Now that the line is separated between Black Creek and Don Mills as well as Kennedy to McCowen and Sheppard. I don't even need the portion between Kennedy and Don Mills underground, just elevate it.

A mayor candidate promising to:

-pay the difference to elevate the Scarborough section like the Skytrain (will win over many in Scarborough)
-Announcing that the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown will add over 20Km (Light Metro) to the current Subway network
-Black Creek to Sheppard East Station under 40 minutes "Unifying" the city

That would get my vote!!!!!

PS:
They could just use some of the Billion dollar from Sheppard East LRT to help pay to elevate Eglinton.
Personally I would use the balance to extend Sheppard to Victoria Park then BRT from there.

 

[sixrings]

could they not simply reduce the above ground stop spacing and make it interlined with the SRT? In the east elevated stops would be Sloane, Victoria Park, Pharmacy, Warden, Birchmount, Kennedy. That should allow for speeds fast enough that it can interline?

 

[11th]

could they not simply reduce the above ground stop spacing and make it interlined with the SRT? In the east elevated stops would be Sloane, Victoria Park, Pharmacy, Warden, Birchmount, Kennedy. That should allow for speeds fast enough that it can interline?

Victoria Park and Pharmacy should just be one station; put it east of Victoria Park, then it serves both streets.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Slowly but surely, this line is getting 100% grade separated. With Miller out of the picture who absolutely wanted the LRT on the streets, they aren't going to meet any opposition to make it a "metro" line.

I like that Metrolinx seems to LISTEN to the population while Miller and Giambrone wouldn't listen to anyone to protect their pet project.

Now that the line is separated between Black Creek and Don Mills as well as Kennedy to McCowen and Sheppard. I don't even need the portion between Kennedy and Don Mills underground, just elevate it.

A mayor candidate promising to:

-pay the difference to elevate the Scarborough section like the Skytrain (will win over many in Scarborough)
-Announcing that the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown will add over 20Km (Light Metro) to the current Subway network
-Black Creek to Sheppard East Station under 40 minutes "Unifying" the city

That would get my vote!!!!!

PS:
They could just use some of the Billion dollar from Sheppard East LRT to help pay to elevate Eglinton.
Personally I would use the balance to extend Sheppard to Victoria Park then BRT from there.

Wouldn't count on it. The money would be much better spent on other projects and the benefit of doing this is minimal at best. The line will undoubtedly be 100% grade separated in 30 years, but right now this is the best arrangement IMO. I'd much rather spend the few hundred million on the DRL. We both probably agree with each other on this. If you don't agree I'd be fascinated to hear how you think this is more worthy of funding than the DRL.

Now one way that there could be 100% grade separation is if the City of Toronto picked up the difference for grade separation and Metrolinx fully funded the Downtown Relief Line. But for this to happen, Toronto would need to generate hundreds of millions and the money would still be better spent elsewhere. Additionally, Metrolinx would likely have to give up control of the ECLRT, which is something that the bureaucrats there would be less than happy with.

 

[sixrings]

but does it need to be elevated to be interlined or can it be at grade if the stop spacing is wide enough?

 

[gweed123]

could they not simply reduce the above ground stop spacing and make it interlined with the SRT? In the east elevated stops would be Sloane, Victoria Park, Pharmacy, Warden, Birchmount, Kennedy. That should allow for speeds fast enough that it can interline?

That's what I was thinking. The N-S avenue spacing in West Scarborough is perfect for stations at every major arterial, while still remaining relatively walkable.

Elevate it for an extra $50-75 million per km, with the extra paid for by the city. I'm pretty sure that the majority of council would support such a move, unless the "pigheaded" faction of the right is feeling particularly stubborn that day.

An extra couple hundred million for a fully grade-separated line from Black Creek to Sheppard East is worth it in my books.

 

[innsertnamehere]

your looking at $400 million to elevate it, and considering council can't find money for the $250 million WELRT I doubt they will throw $400 million into a pot on a whim, no matter how much I wish they would.

 

[rbt]

That's what I was thinking. The N-S avenue spacing in West Scarborough is perfect for stations at every major arterial, while still remaining relatively walkable.

Elevate it for an extra $50-75 million per km, with the extra paid for by the city. I'm pretty sure that the majority of council would support such a move, unless the "pigheaded" faction of the right is feeling particularly stubborn that day.

Looking at the 2013 capital budget it's very clear that current leadership (whomever that is) is extremely anti debt and wants to pay for things with cash instead.

Makes sense for a small business but very little sense for a large business or government, particularly at todays interest rates (30 year bonds are under 4% for the city).

 

[sixrings]

still no definitive answer to the question...if there is enough spacing does it need to be elevated to be interlined?

 

[EnviroTO]

Slowly but surely, this line is getting 100% grade separated. With Miller out of the picture who absolutely wanted the LRT on the streets, they aren't going to meet any opposition to make it a "metro" line.

Under Miller the length from Black Creek to Laird was underground. If he absolutely wanted it on the streets then he could have done it. Under Miller the TTC right-sized transit to demand and aimed to spread it across the city by reducing wasteful spending on grade separation where there was little benefit and by reducing spending on unneeded capacity. There is no reason to believe this extension of the underground portion to Don Mills wouldn't have happened under Miller as well with the same motivators.

Under Miller the subway to York U was started. It made sense to build subway like capacity to the second largest university in the city. York Region paid for Vaughan. Under Miller the Don Mills corridor was studied as BRT and LRT and it was determined that higher capacity would be required Bloor to downtown so Transit City stopped a Don Mills LRT line at Bloor. Jane LRT was to also have underground portions where it made sense. Kingston Road was studied and BRT was determined to make the most sense so there was no anti-BRT bias. Transit City lines were prioritized by ridership and reach, Jane, Don Mills, Scarborough, and Lakeshore West took a back seat. That is it. No conspiracy. Just no need to waste money on grade separation where simple curbs and stoplight priority can deliver most of the benefits of ROW isolation, and no need to waste money on capacity that isn't required.

 

[Rainforest]

How would they know where to rough it in? Would you put it above or below the Eglinton line (soil conditions blocks north and south of the station determine this)?

Do you put it at Don Mills or try for a 3 way interchange with a potential mid-town GO line a bit to the west of Don Mills or north of Eglinton?


A DRL running along O'Conner and north on Vic Park would eliminate a ton of "how do we get lots of busses/lrt over/under the DVP"" problem. Don Mills isn't a great choice if most ridership is transferring to it from the East.

A DRL along O'Connor and Vic Park would miss 3 major nodes: Thorncliffe, Flemmingdon, and Science Centre.

I believe that DRL must serve those 3 nodes. And if it does that, I don't see how it can miss the Eglinton / Don Mills station.

Furthermore, a DRL station at Eglinton / Don Mills would utilize the same LRT station and bus terminal that will be built for Eglinton LRT.

If DRL is ever extended north of Eglinton, then veering it east to Vic Park can be considered; but not south of Eglinton.

 

[drum118]

A DRL along O'Connor and Vic Park would miss 3 major nodes: Thorncliffe, Flemmingdon, and Science Centre.

I believe that DRL must serve those 3 nodes. And if it does that, I don't see how it can miss the Eglinton / Don Mills station.

Furthermore, a DRL station at Eglinton / Don Mills would utilize the same LRT station and bus terminal that will be built for Eglinton LRT.

If DRL is ever extended north of Eglinton, then veering it east to Vic Park can be considered; but not south of Eglinton.

I disagree that Pape should be the connection point for the BD since it is cheaper to build to Coxwell from Don Mills Rd.

As for O'Connor and Vic Park routing, DOA.

Don Mills/Eglinton has to be the hub for both lines.

As taking it north to Victoria, I have to shoot it down considering my master-plan from 2006 call for the DRL to go north on Victoria from Queen St. Don Mills has and will have more density than Victoria to justify the line there as plan.

Thorncliffe can be service from the Don Mills/Thorcliffe station. The amount of riders for Science Centre is too low for a station by itself as a true DRL line to Steeles, let alone to Hwy 7 as York wants it to be.

I still see this DRL as an S-Bahn using double deck trains like this found in Vienna. Its a Stadler KISS 6 unit built in 2011. It can be someone else model.

Note: It can come in various lengthen.

 

[k10ery]

Considering they somehow failed to notice the development east of Brentcliffe that's been advertised for YEARS even with the LRT in their on street ads I wouldn't put much faith in their ability to plan for the future.

So you believe that story?