[Catenary]

I disagree that Pape should be the connection point for the BD since it is cheaper to build to Coxwell from Don Mills Rd.

I still see this DRL as an S-Bahn using double deck trains like this found in Vienna. Its a Stadler KISS 6 unit built in 2011. It can be someone else model.

Note: It can come in various lengthen.

I think the concept of building the DRL as a S-Bahn style service with double deck overhead powered EMUs is a good idea for many reasons, but is unlikely to happen due to an even larger list of reasons.

S-Bahn style services are used around the world, usually as a second network laid over an existing subway, as a hybrid commuter rail/subway system. Having ridden the Paris RER lines, most of my experience comes from them.

Building the DRL as an S-Bahn would allow for many routing options on the main rail lines, especially in the western end of the line outside the core. Based on the idea of the DRL ending at Bloor, an S-Bahn could continue outwards fulfilling some of the promises of frequent all day GO service, and on the lines that are scheduled to be electrified first. The line could also run to the airport, similar to the Paris RER. Assuming the UPX continues to run, this would add a second tier of service to the airport, with more stops along the rail corridor and then into the downtown, silencing many of the criticisms of the current UPX scheme. The large trains would have capacity for years to come, and would relieve existing GO lines and Union Station. Compared to a subway, it would provide equivalent service along the proposed route, with branches out to the Milton, Kitchener and Airport as far as is needed. Eventually, when the GO system is fully electrified, it would provide another option for commuters, and Bloor would be a major hub.

The problems start with who's going to build it. The TTC wouldn't want to have to build a completely new type of system, complete with another set of trains, that would appear to be serving areas outside of the city. Metrolinx has the DRL in their Big Move plans, but it's another new direction for them as well, and might not mesh well with their existing system initially. GO seems reluctant to run anything other then locomotive hauled trains. It would also be more expensive to start, but I think latent demand would quickly make it worthwhile.

Overall, brilliant idea, but... government.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

Someone tell me why there is 15 bus bays for the Terminal??? Given what changes in route structure may happen, 15 is over kill.

Right now they're planning to run the 32, 35, 35E, 71, 89 (both directions), 161, 168, 171, and two new routes called 19 Jane South and 170 Emmett. Add in space for Wheel Trans and the TTC consumes most of the 15 bays right there. No harm in having a couple of spares for future changes.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Copied this from the PDF:

There are two hubs for the bus bays. The smaller east hub could be a temporary hub until the LRT is extended westward. Also, they look like they will be built to handle the longer articulated buses.

 

[sixrings]

Maybe the east hub is for mississauga transit. How big is the land that the bus bays the drop off zone and the Kodak building number 9 take up? Looks like you could fit a fair bit of residential condominiums in that area which would have access to both the GO and TTC if the line went one station farther to Jane.

 

[raptor]

The official LRT map has been updated:

http://www.thecrosstown.ca/sites/default/files/LRT Map 121112-FINAL copy.pdf

 

[gweed123]

Taking MT routes to Mt. Dennis/Jane station is a huge waste of money and most of all, Riders Time. You are taking riders to some place they have no need to go in the first place. Then you are forcing them to pay a higher fare to use GO when TTC is fine as well what they can afford to pay.

Most MT riders aren't destined for Islington station and surroundings either. What's the sense of funnelling them into that spot?

And no one is forcing them to take GO. They'd have the option of GO or the Eglinton LRT.

Again, everyone thinks riders want to go to the city core, when in fact, its all over the place and they are forced to travel out of their way because of the current setup.

At least giving MT riders multiple options for which TTC terminal they want to get dropped off at will cater to more non-downtown, as well as downtown-bound trip patterns.

I think this is far too deep into Toronto territory for any Mississauga Transit buses to serve...

It's 1km shorter running from Renforth to Mt. Dennis via Eglinton than it is running via 427 & Dundas/Bloor to Islington.

 

[M II A II R II K]

If the whole thing is off the road and they can bunch 3 LRTs together that should be the equivalent of 5 subway cars, which is probably more than enough for this line.

 

[gweed123]

If the whole thing is off the road and they can bunch 3 LRTs together that should be the equivalent of 5 subway cars, which is probably more than enough for this line.

I'd agree with that, although the surface stations may have to be expanded later (at the east end of the line). Or are you assuming that the east end gets tunnelled/elevated as well?

Ottawa is doing it right IMO. They're building the 3 downtown stations with 120m platforms, and all surface stations with 90m platforms, with room to easily expand to 120m.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Yea if the whole thing is off the road, and if so it may lead to less surface stations so less stations to expand.

 

[Dan416]

Is it likely there'll be a GO station here?

 

[gweed123]

Is it likely there'll be a GO station here?

Where? At Mt. Dennis? Yeah it's right on the Georgetown corridor. Hence why I think it would make a good terminal station. There would be a lot of transfer options.

 

[BurlOak]

If Eglinton is to be elevated through Scarborough, it must also go over the DVP. I also thought it would be nice to keep the Leslie Station, or at least keep the option open for when (if) the CPR line gets GO service.

So this is what I am thinking.

1. Just east of Laird Station, the line needs to continue roughly horizontally, instead of diving to go below the Don River West Branch.

2. At about 943 Eglinton Avenue East, the TBM launch site will be built. The ramps to this property may need to be closed, either temporarily or permanently, but access can also be obtained from Vanderhoof Avenue to the South. The horizontal alignment would remain roughly horizontal, maybe a slight shift in plan away from Eglinton. This would also become the Portal location where the line switches to being at grade.

3. The line would stay roughly horizontal and then slope down at-grade along the valley slope. The line would cross the Don River West Branch on a separate bridge – the height above water probably a bit higher than the road bridge.

4. A new semi-outdoor, at-grade (partially elevated) station can be located at Leslie. This may be optional at this time. It would also serve a future GO station along the adjacent CPR line.

5. The line cuts through the CPR embankment using twin tunnels, constructed using jack and bore. The line is rising, following the grade of Eglinton.

6. To keep the line closer to Eglinton, the ramps to Celestica are reconfigured to a Diamond interchange – eliminating the loop ramp. A left turn would be needed to go under, or come from under, the bridge. The horizontal alignment would have to be moved marginally farther away from Eglinton.

7. About 300m west of Don Mills, the line enters a portal and the entire area is built using cut-and-cover. Cross over tracks can easily be located in this area.

8. The Don Mills station is redesigned completely. First, both Eglinton and DRL are single platform. Next, the Stations are shifted to the South and West and the bus station is also switched to this corner. The mezzanine level is directly at grade, located between 0 and 4m below ground. The ECLRT is located about 5m to 11m below grade, while the DRL is located about 12 to 19m below grade. Since the station is not under the roadway, this mezzanine will not interfere with utilities under Eglinton or Don Mills. There are pedestrian tunnels under both Don Mills and Eglinton. The DRL is accessed by elevator/stairs in the mezzanine near the bus station, and also from the pedestrian tunnels, both south and north of the platform. The ECLRT platform is accessed from the same mezzanine, and also from below from a deeper tunnel under Eglinton and under the ECLRT platform. The goal is to reduce the depth of the station to have less of a climb to go over DVP.

9. The line rises at 4.5% after passing the station. The portal would be located about 200m east of the station. The Gervais Drive intersection would have to be move about 25m closer to Don Mills. The line would be immediately to the south side of Eglinton.

10. For about 200m, the line runs parallel to Ferrand Drive. The line continues to climb at 4.5%. In this area, the line has left the portal and is below grade, at grade, and above grade, but not high enough to pass under it. Just before the DVP on ramp, the elevation of the line is adequate for the ramp to pass under this elevated portion. Eglinton Avenue may have to be shifted marginally to the north (instead of widening on both sides if a median portal was used), or Ferrand could be switched to a one-way road.

11. Don Mills starts to slope down, but the line must continue to rise to go over the DVP.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Don Mills Station should be redesigned to include a rough-in for the Downtown Relief Line/Don Mills LRT. At the moment, it will mean they will have to dig up the area AGAIN, when (not if) construction for the DRL starts.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Maybe start the DRL at the same time!

 

[gweed123]

The Don Mills Station should be redesigned to include a rough-in for the Downtown Relief Line/Don Mills LRT. At the moment, it will mean they will have to dig up the area AGAIN, when (not if) construction for the DRL starts.

Yup. I think a Lower Queen type of deal would certainly be warranted here. That way when they do build the DRL, the only changes to Science Centre station would be cosmetic (putting in the tiles, putting in the tracks), and they could do a "plug in" with the track further south, much like what they will do when they extend Sheppard further west or Yonge further north.

Also, if they do rough the station in, it would possibly provide another reason to extend the DRL up to Eglinton: "well, the roughed-in station is already there, might as well use it". How many times have we heard that rationale for why we should use Queen for the DRL alignment through downtown? (granted though with Queen, the platform was built for streetcars, so it's borderline useless for a subway, but still).

The "it's already there, might as well use it" argument when it comes to transit infrastructure is a pretty powerful one, especially within the general public.