[denfromoakvillemilton]

Weston.

And they are calling it Mount Dennis. This was covered in the recent consultation - http://thecrosstown.ca/news-media/w...-and-black-creek-maintenance-storage-facility. If you look at the final presentation - http://thecrosstown.ca/sites/default/files/Keele-Jane-Black-Creek-EPR-web_0.pdf you'll see the phasing is clarified on slides 1 and 2 (with Jane being part of the 14 km Phase 2 out to Pearson airport.

Thanks for the info. Much easier for me to just jump on a line in 10 years then the bus trip or drive now.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Go Crosstown is a long shot; its usability depends on the overall network configuration at that time.

One possibility is DRL subway going up to Eglinton and further north to intercept the GO Crosstown line; that would become a sensible way to get downtown from north-east.

Besides, not everybody goes downtown; quite a few riders will use a connection between midtown locations, provided that GO Crosstown is integrated with feeder services.

Very true. I think the DRL should go to Eglinton on both sides anyway, which should take massive pressure off of the Yonge/U/S lines.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Thanks for the info. Much easier for me to just jump on a line in 10 years then the bus trip or drive now.

7 years now, possibly less. I seem to remember reading somewhere that if the allen is closed for construction it could actually move the date up to 2019. whatever year it opens, I have a feeling it will be November or December. with any luck (and with good reason) we won't have any deaths like there was on spadina that sets the construction schedule back by an entire year.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

7 years now, possibly less. I seem to remember reading somewhere that if the allen is closed for construction it could actually move the date up to 2019. whatever year it opens, I have a feeling it will be November or December. with any luck (and with good reason) we won't have any deaths like there was on spadina that sets the construction schedule back by an entire year.

Let's hope. Toronto is moving forward, in some ways, for once. I know I was annoying about the airport extension, but it was only because I've heard no public comments and I want to see a complete line. Of course we have the express but that will be 15 dollars a piece.


Do you think the former city of york will see an increase in house prices from the project? It's the only cheap area left in the city.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Back on the topic of elevation, what paths are available for Metrolinx to elevate Eglinton East? Metrolinx is apparently discussing the idea so I presume that Eglinton East elevation before opening is somewhat plausible. Any thoughts?

 

[nfitz]

Back on the topic of elevation, what paths are available for Metrolinx to elevate Eglinton East? Metrolinx is apparently discussing the idea so I presume that Eglinton East elevation before opening is somewhat plausible. Any thoughts?

There's no indication that Metrolinx is considering changes. If nothing, the recent decision by Metrolinx to preserve Ferrand as a surface stop, and the recent issue of the RFQ on the project imply that things are now set in stone.

What's leading you to believe that they are considering major changes?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There's no indication that Metrolinx is considering changes. If nothing, the recent decision by Metrolinx to preserve Ferrand as a surface stop, and the recent issue of the RFQ on the project imply that things are now set in stone.

What's leading you to believe that they are considering major changes?

Nothing more that discussion here on UT from members who've been in contact with people at Metrolinx. I don't consider elevation particularly likely but I think it's fair to say that Metrolinx absolutely wants ECLRT East to be elevated. I was just curious as to how Metrolinx could go about elevation if through some unlikely miracle they found a way to.

 

[gweed123]

Back on the topic of elevation, what paths are available for Metrolinx to elevate Eglinton East? Metrolinx is apparently discussing the idea so I presume that Eglinton East elevation before opening is somewhat plausible. Any thoughts?

A political champion. That's pretty much the only way at this point, because Metrolinx, although they clearly want grade-separation, don't want to reopen the political can of worms. It's politics that put it as at-grade in the first place, so it's only politics that can switch it to something that makes more sense (elevated).

Ford could have been that champion if he wasn't so stupidly insistent on having it underground. I seriously think that if Ford had proposed 'grade-separated', and let Metrolinx decide how, that grade-separated would have made it through the Transit City fight, instead of having it revert to the pre-Ford design.

 

[EnviroTO]

Who is Metrolinx? If the powers behind Metrolinx wanted grade separation on Eglinton East there would be grade separation on Eglinton East. I sense a general indifference to it from Metrolinx. I have never seen a statement from Metrolinx stating a preference for grade separation on Eglinton East. Beyond Presto and standardization they seem to take their lead from municipalities on what is to be built. In the news there has been talk about Hamilton LRT becoming Hamilton RT in Metrolinx documents, and surprise surprise Hamilton council seems lukewarm to LRT, and with the TTC saying DRL is urgent all of a sudden Metrolinx has prioritized the DRL. Metrolinx isn't planning anything, in my eyes, other than GO Transit, Presto, and delivery of projects once funding has been committed and the project is started. If a project, outside GO, hasn't gotten funding or started then it really isn't a Metrolinx plan... it is a loose collection of municipal priorities subject to the way the political wind blows.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Who is Metrolinx? If the powers behind Metrolinx wanted grade separation on Eglinton East there would be grade separation on Eglinton East. I sense a general indifference to it from Metrolinx. I have never seen a statement from Metrolinx stating a preference for grade separation on Eglinton East. Beyond Presto and standardization they seem to take their lead from municipalities on what is to be built. In the news there has been talk about Hamilton LRT becoming Hamilton RT in Metrolinx documents, and surprise surprise Hamilton council seems lukewarm to LRT, and with the TTC saying DRL is urgent all of a sudden Metrolinx has prioritized the DRL. Metrolinx isn't planning anything, in my eyes, other than GO Transit, Presto, and delivery of projects once funding has been committed and the project is started. If a project, outside GO, hasn't gotten funding or started then it really isn't a Metrolinx plan... it is a loose collection of municipal priorities subject to the way the political wind blows.

All the transit systems should be given over to metrolinx. They don't have any real power. Remember cities can be made and broken in Ontario at the snap of the premiers fingers.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

All the transit systems should be given over to metrolinx. They don't have any real power. Remember cities can be made and broken in Ontario at the snap of the premiers fingers.

Someone should do something about that.

I really feel that Ontario should seriously consider granting Toronto/GTA some sort of special status within the Province or have the city secede and form some kind of autonomous administrative division independent from the Province of Ontario with greater representation in the House of Commons, where it is grossly underrepresented. The city and the region is simply far to large to be a simple "creature" of the Ontario as it is laid out in the Constitution. The same thing may also be said about Montreal and Vancouver.

Sounds like a crazy idea, but this kind of setup certainly has benefitted several cities around the world.

A political champion. That's pretty much the only way at this point, because Metrolinx, although they clearly want grade-separation, don't want to reopen the political can of worms.

Isn't Metrolinx legally allowed to change the design of the ECLRT however they please? I haven't read the entire contract between the City of Toronto and Metrolinx, but I believe that they has full control over the design of the line as long as they "listen" to public concerns. They've already eliminated Leslie station and made the portion grade separated. What's to stop them from doing the same thing to the rest of the line (I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not that simple)?

 

[ssiguy2]

I called the Crosstown office and I asked them why they weren't elevating, using Primove or extending it as SRT and using the new 67 meter {expandable to one long 102 metres} Innovia MK111 SkyTrain cars. They had never heard of the new MK111 SkyTrain cars and had not even seen MK11 that Vancouver has had for 17 years, never heard of Primove, and didn't know about elevation.

They couldn't tell me why a little SRT is costing more to transfer over to LRT than Vancouver's entire new 11km Evergreen SkyTrain line which includes all the new Innovia MK111 trains, a one km tunnel, and grade spearation. She was actually quite nice and had no idea why is was so much more than Vancouver. She said she would get back to me. Never did so I talked to another guy 2 weeks ago. He said Torontonians would never go for elevation but I mentioned how Vancouverites love it and he admitted the only elevated systems he had ever seen were the ever so new Chicago and New York lines. He said he would get back to me.

This conversation started a month ago and I have yet to get an email answer although the woman did email me telling me they are still looking into it and hadn't forgotten me which was nice to atleast know that they actually were looking for answers and not the standard form letter.

Have any of you actually gone to Metrolinx or Crosstown to find out why they aren't elevating the line? Now that Miller's TC is dead and this is Metrolinx's baby I bet they would be more receptive than most of you think. Remember before Miller LRT plans Metrolinx wanted to simply extend the SRT down Eglinton and save themselves the conversion and make it grade separated with the new MK11 trains. All that they would be doing is going back to what they originally wanted until Miller decided that Torontonians don't want rapid transit but "great city building" instead.

BTW< I maybe wrong but I believe Vancouver has taken possension of it's new MK11 trains but I think Bombardier is planning to phase them out completely so that all the trains will be the Innovia model which is the basis for both their new SkyTrain and Monorail train systems.

 

[gweed123]

Someone should do something about that.

I really feel that Ontario should seriously consider granting Toronto/GTA some sort of special status within the Province or have the city secede and form some kind of autonomous administrative division independent from the Province of Ontario with greater representation in the House of Commons, where it is grossly underrepresented. The city and the region is simply far to large to be a simple "creature" of the Ontario as it is laid out in the Constitution. The same thing may also be said about Montreal and Vancouver.

Sounds like a crazy idea, but this kind of setup certainly has benefitted several cities around the world.

I've raised in another thread the possibility of basically re-creating Metro, but encompassing the entire GTHA. Toronto and Hamilton would be de-amalgamated (but with York and East York staying with Toronto), and the Upper Tier governments (Peel, Halton, Durham, York) would be abolished. Every municipality would be given seats in council based on population. I did a chart a while ago actually, and I concluded that 75,000/seat was the magic number to get a good balance.

Metro would be responsible for things like transit, master planning, major roadways, utilities, and police/fire/ambulance. The local municipalities would still have control of things like Site Plan approval, ZBLs, garbage collection, etc.

Isn't Metrolinx legally allowed to change the design of the ECLRT however they please? I haven't read the entire contract between the City of Toronto and Metrolinx, but I believe that they has full control over the design of the line as long as they "listen" to public concerns. They've already eliminated Leslie station and made the portion grade separated. What's to stop them from doing the same thing to the rest of the line (I have a sneaking suspicion that it's not that simple)?

Legally yes, but practically no. There was so much political capital spent on both sides of the debate, that re-opening it without having a political champion first could get ugly. Of course, if either side of the debate actually talked about it like grown-ups, it wouldn't be an issue. But alas, it is.

There is no technical reason why Metrolinx can't do it. They have the authority to do it, and they certainly have the planning justification to do it. They just don't have the political capital to do it.

If elevating Eglinton East did have a political champion, particularly on Toronto Council, theoretically it could be 'suggested' by council through a simple motion. Of course, that runs the severe risk of a Fordite taking that opportunity to push all of Transit City back into the debate. Then we could end up right back where we were in 2011 and the start of 2012.

Of course, Wynne could also order Metrolinx to change the plan, in which case she would be twisting Metrolinx' rubber arm on that one. But then again, you run the risk of angering Ford and his minions.

 

[k10ery]

Have any of you actually gone to Metrolinx or Crosstown to find out why they aren't elevating the line? Now that Miller's TC is dead and this is Metrolinx's baby I bet they would be more receptive than most of you think. Remember before Miller LRT plans Metrolinx wanted to simply extend the SRT down Eglinton and save themselves the conversion and make it grade separated with the new MK11 trains. All that they would be doing is going back to what they originally wanted until Miller decided that Torontonians don't want rapid transit but "great city building" instead.

Are you suggesting that the professional planners haven't considered the elevated Skytrain option? It was publicly proposed by McCuaig himself in 2010 after Ford was elected. But it got no support from any faction on council. Since then Metrolinx has signed onto 2 different plans for transit on Eglinton, and neither one included elevation (except for the SRT section). Your plan has no political support in Toronto. Best to forget it, as Metrolinx has.

 

[Catenary]

I called the Crosstown office and I asked them why they weren't elevating, using Primove or extending it as SRT and using the new 67 meter {expandable to one long 102 metres} Innovia MK111 SkyTrain cars. They had never heard of the new MK111 SkyTrain cars and had not even seen MK11 that Vancouver has had for 17 years, never heard of Primove, and didn't know about elevation.

I asked a very similar question of the staff in Ottawa, since their LRT is similar in design to Eglinton. A high floor, automated system like Vancouver's seems to fit best at first look but what it comes to is future expansion and in Toronto's case compatibility with the other lines. Low floor tram trains seems to be the going preference in the province right now, and will probably lead to increased buying power in the future, and will help maintenance in the future by having a common vehicle design in Toronto.

I don't see the point of Primove in this application. It's great where you don't want or can't have wires but it seems needlessly complex when you have room for them. Catenary lines are proven technology, as are third rails.

I've raised in another thread the possibility of basically re-creating Metro, but encompassing the entire GTHA. Toronto and Hamilton would be de-amalgamated (but with York and East York staying with Toronto), and the Upper Tier governments (Peel, Halton, Durham, York) would be abolished. Every municipality would be given seats in council based on population. I did a chart a while ago actually, and I concluded that 75,000/seat was the magic number to get a good balance.

Metro would be responsible for things like transit, master planning, major roadways, utilities, and police/fire/ambulance. The local municipalities would still have control of things like Site Plan approval, ZBLs, garbage collection, etc.

This sounds a lot like London England. I like their system, but it leads to some issues. Try figuring out the different rules for parking in each borough without getting a ticket.