CDL.TO
Moderator
That's absurd. Clearly Helsinki's climate is incompatible with cycling. Those photos must be from somewhere warmer, like France or something.
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- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
That's absurd. Clearly Helsinki's climate is incompatible with cycling. Those photos must be from somewhere warmer, like France or something.
Nobina
New Member
You must be absolutely absurd! I'm Finnish, and have spent considerable time in Helsinki, and a further 200km north in Tampere, Finland. They embrace cycling over there, unlike this bullsh** we have in Toronto, where it seems as if cyclists and motorists are at war, and we force cyclists to bike on the street in dangerous vehicular traffic. On most streets in Finnish cities, the sidewalk on one side of the street is reserved for cyclists and pedestrians, with clear signage, and a white line down the middle, giving cyclists safe off-street paths. Not this bike lane BS we have here. You've obviously never been to Northern Europe, or you'd know how people embrace cycling in those places. We even have studded winter tires for bikes. Don't talk sh** about something you know nothing about!
Check out Google Maps Street View of Helsinki, if you don't believe me.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
I think CDL.TO was being sarcastic. (BTW. Still haven't seen a snowplow on my street this past June. How can we bike in Toronto without snow removal this month, July?)
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CDL.TO
Moderator
Hahaha. Yes, I was being sarcastic.
Too often in debates on the subject, there are frequent claims that Toronto's climate is incompatible with cycling. The same claims are also made about LRT. Both arguments are, of course, laughable.
Too often in debates on the subject, there are frequent claims that Toronto's climate is incompatible with cycling. The same claims are also made about LRT. Both arguments are, of course, laughable.
Nobina
New Member
This is what bike paths should look like.
Cyclists, pedestrians, and automobiles in harmony.
Why can't we do this in Toronto?
(Images courtesy of Google Maps. Location: Maunula, Helsinki, Finland.)
P.S. Understood CDL.TO. We're fighting for the same cause.
I always found it funny how MPP Kathleen Wynne claimed that Toronto's climate was too cold to support electric trains/electrification for GO Transit, and her office is located in the Finnish Seniors residence complex (on Eglinton Avenue E). Most of Finland's vast rail network is electrified, and offers high-speed (220km/h) Pendolino service between several major cities, as well as Allegro service to St. Petersburg, Russia. The EMUs used as commuter/regional trains can easily accomplish speeds of 160km/h.
Cyclists, pedestrians, and automobiles in harmony.
Why can't we do this in Toronto?
(Images courtesy of Google Maps. Location: Maunula, Helsinki, Finland.)
P.S. Understood CDL.TO. We're fighting for the same cause.
I always found it funny how MPP Kathleen Wynne claimed that Toronto's climate was too cold to support electric trains/electrification for GO Transit, and her office is located in the Finnish Seniors residence complex (on Eglinton Avenue E). Most of Finland's vast rail network is electrified, and offers high-speed (220km/h) Pendolino service between several major cities, as well as Allegro service to St. Petersburg, Russia. The EMUs used as commuter/regional trains can easily accomplish speeds of 160km/h.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
My pleasure. But most of the credit goes not to me, but to the government of The Netherlands. I just illustrated what is standard practice over there. The Netherlands is one of the few countries where they truly balance the needs of all modes. Here in North America, road designs frequently risk the lives of pedestrians and cyclists in order to save motorists a few seconds.
It's great that Finland is thinking about cyclists, but their designs are nearly as flawed as ours. While they may feel more safe than Toronto's bike lanes, I doubt they actually are.
In Toronto, sidewalk cycling is illegal, and for good reason. On the sidewalk, cyclists are less visible to cars, so they are more likely to get hit at an intersection. Painting a white line and a bike symbol does nothing to change this.
In order for separated bike lanes to be safe, their intersections need to address the increased risks due to reduced visibility. At complex intersections, that means controlling movements which conflict with bicycles (see my image post on the previous page).
At simple intersections, it can be addressed by ensuring clear sightlines and making the bike path obvious, like this example on the MGT:
[video=youtube;BlTFF-j1aK4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlTFF-j1aK4&feature=plcp[/video]
I certainly hope we won't build bike paths like that. As I stated above, these designs likely suffer from conflicts between bicycles, cars and pedestrians.
Furthermore, Finnish bike paths have a tendency to be too narrow. In order to allow cyclists to pass each other, single-direction bike paths need to be at least 2m wide, with bi-directional paths recommended to be at least 3m.
If we build any bike paths less than 2m wide, they will be disliked by all but the slowest cyclists, creating unneeded opposition to separated cycling infrastructure.
Sadly, Toronto is actually starting to build infrastructure the way you've illustrated. Rather than designing infrastructure specifically for bicycles as is done in Denmark and The Netherlands, we are taking the Finnish strategy of painting a white line on a widened sidewalk, which does nothing to improve the situation for cyclists.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Agreed. In fact, this year I commuted by bicycle all year round for the first time. I didn't specifically decide to do so, it's just what happened. As with every other year, I thought "I'll stop cycling when it gets to cold and icy". The next thing I knew, it was springtime.
Apart from the very mild winter, there were a few things that contributed:
- My commute is now entirely on bike paths, so I'm not as concerned about the consequences of slipping on ice.
- I turned 18, so I'm no longer required to wear a helmet. I can instead wear a hood and a hat, keeping me much warmer than a ventilated piece of styrofoam.
- I got a cheap bike with fenders, so I'm not so concerned about what I ride over.
So based on my experience, I'd say that the most important things for encouraging winter cycling are building separated cycling infrastructure, eliminating helmet laws and selling all-season bicycles.
Wear your helmet. You only have one head and one brain. Get a helmet cover and/or a under-helmet toque thing (can't remember what they're called). I just came back from a ride where I had a fall and was glad I had my helmet on. Saw a guy fall yesterday with no helmet; he was lucky not to hit his head. Accidents happen.
Nobina
New Member
It isn't perfect, but it works better than what we have in Toronto from my experience, especially in the suburbs. It isn't necessarily a bad idea where it's appropriate. It may not work in downtown Toronto, but it might be a good idea for the rest of Toronto and surrounding areas.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
True, but if we're building new infrastructure, we might as well build it right and get the best of both worlds: subjective and actual safety.
the lemur
Senior Member
I think that where space allows, we should not require pedestrians and cyclists to share the same path but allow them to have grade-separated paths:
http://goo.gl/maps/FvrO
http://goo.gl/maps/FvrO
klb86
Active Member
They planted some shrubs/bushes a few weeks ago a long the bicycle path.
Shrubs, looking kind of dead. Kennedy Station in the distance.
The graffiti didn't take long to show up.
More Shrubs. Solaris condos in the backround.
Shrubs, looking kind of dead. Kennedy Station in the distance.
The graffiti didn't take long to show up.
More Shrubs. Solaris condos in the backround.
P
Paolo
Guest
we need more bike paths like this, it will get more people off the road
reaperexpress
Senior Member
An update on the Finch Hydro Corridor Bike Path level crossing at the GO Transit Barrie Line:
(Initial post here)
I am somewhat hesitant to announce this for fear that someone from the City will see it, but the gates have all been open for a while now, and the crossing functions beautifully.
There is no safety issue, since the crossing has lights, bells, good visibility and mandatory horn use. I took a video of some trains going through the crossing, where you can see how it would be impossible to be unaware of an approaching train:
[video=youtube;q_VMgd9vIls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_VMgd9vIls&feature=c4-overview&list=UUwAo-N1m-eTiiBzFXk8ornw[/video]
(Initial post here)
I am somewhat hesitant to announce this for fear that someone from the City will see it, but the gates have all been open for a while now, and the crossing functions beautifully.
There is no safety issue, since the crossing has lights, bells, good visibility and mandatory horn use. I took a video of some trains going through the crossing, where you can see how it would be impossible to be unaware of an approaching train:
[video=youtube;q_VMgd9vIls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_VMgd9vIls&feature=c4-overview&list=UUwAo-N1m-eTiiBzFXk8ornw[/video]
RC8
Senior Member
I don't know, I always see recreational cyclists with helmets and sunglasses looking down while playing very loud music on their earphones. They may be looking for obstacles but not for incoming trains.
The multiple gates were overkill but some mechanism to slow people down and raise awareness of the train crossing wouldn't be out of place.
Also, there should be a small report with information about entryways to the Gatineau-Hydro Corridor and ways in which you can connect to nearby landmarks from it coming out this fall.
The multiple gates were overkill but some mechanism to slow people down and raise awareness of the train crossing wouldn't be out of place.
Also, there should be a small report with information about entryways to the Gatineau-Hydro Corridor and ways in which you can connect to nearby landmarks from it coming out this fall.