[andrewpmk]

The failure to shift the line to the south of the road between the Brentcliffe portal and the Don Mills portal is the biggest mistake of this project. I will not be surprised if, a few years after the line opens, Lawrence East buses will be forced to run to Laird instead of the Don Mills bus terminal, because there will be no room left on the westbound LRT trains at Don Mills.

I suspect that quite a bit of money will have to be spent turning Leslie/Eglinton into a grade separated interchange (similar to the Celestica interchange further east). If this design change isn't done now, then a bunch of money will have to be wasted after the line opens to fix this problem. Faced with overcrowded LRVs between Don Mills and Laird, and Metrolinx telling frustrated Flemingdon Park residents, "sorry the system does not allow a train more than every 5 minutes", they will have no choice to reconstruct this intersection after the fact and possibly shut part of the line down for a while.

 

[ShonTron]

He also said that since they were going back to the 2010 EA for the Brentcliffe-Don Mills alignment, the storage track would (again) be east of Laird Station but there would be no storage track at Don Mills. A storage track was originally supposed to be east of Don Mills station as well but I think they found it won't fit between the portal east of Don Mills station and the re-instated Ferrand stop. At one point they were going to have a 3-track/2-platform station at Don Mills to accommodate this (when the tunnel was proposed to extend to east of Don Mills). Now that Leslie stop has been re-instated and the separate LRT right-of-way will end at Brentcliffe portal, they won't be short-turning LRTs at Don Mills, but rather Laird.

So the increased headway will end at Laird and then there will be reduced frequency of service east of Leaside out to Kennedy. It's too bad, considering Don Mills will have more traffic than Laird, especially with the bus terminal there and the future Don Mills Relief Line connection as well.

Damn it! Scheduled short turns at Laird? How stupid! I can't believe that there's no way a storage track can be built at Don Mills as that's going to be the busiest stop east of Yonge, what about a three track station where trains can be turned in service? Gahhh!

 

[innsertnamehere]

welcome to the world of NIMBYism. I think that was the real reason they wanted to tunnel to don mills, as it would have allowed them to run their subway style service levels out to don mills. Now don mills be stuck with the service quality of the surface LRTs, which is inferior to the subway style service don mills should probably have.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

ML should have stuck to their theory that it was impossible to add a Leslie Station.

 

[rbt]

ML should have stuck to their theory that it was impossible to add a Leslie Station.

I disagree. Leslie should not only exist but have a bus terminal and be integrated with with a new Eglinton East GO station. Rebuilding the length to Union and purchasing the corridor might cost $300M; it is largely abandoned track.

Tie this new GO line (thanks CP) into the Richmond Hill line just south of Lawrence & DVP to take ~5 minutes travel time off the existing Richmond Hill route.

Observe as the Richmond Hill line now intersects Sheppard Subway (moved Oriole station/Leslie Subway Station), Eglinton LRT at Leslie, the Yonge line at Richmond Hill, and the Yonge line at Union. Now boost frequencies to every 10 minutes and call it the Line 1 express (Line 1 being Yonge).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

My major concern is not having Don Mills Station underground. It's the second most used station on the line. Either way, it should be underground.

An underground Leslie station woild be nice, but only with a GO connection. Otherwise scrap it.

 

[Voltz]

My major concern is not having Don Mills Station underground. It's the second most used station on the line. Either way, it should be underground.

An underground Leslie station woild be nice, but only with a GO connection. Otherwise scrap it.

Don Mills will still be underground.

 

[andrewpmk]

I disagree. Leslie should not only exist but have a bus terminal and be integrated with with a new Eglinton East GO station. Rebuilding the length to Union and purchasing the corridor might cost $300M; it is largely abandoned track.

Tie this new GO line (thanks CP) into the Richmond Hill line just south of Lawrence & DVP to take ~5 minutes travel time off the existing Richmond Hill route.

Observe as the Richmond Hill line now intersects Sheppard Subway (moved Oriole station/Leslie Subway Station), Eglinton LRT at Leslie, the Yonge line at Richmond Hill, and the Yonge line at Union. Now boost frequencies to every 10 minutes and call it the Line 1 express (Line 1 being Yonge).

Leslie is the CP line, not the Richmond Hill line. The Richmond Hill line is further east, just east of Wynford Drive.

 

[Johnny Au]

Given that Don Mills station is underground, there should be a pedestrian walkway to the Science Centre, as it would be a major trip generator. After all, the Eglinton Crosstown line is partially owned by the same parent as the Science Centre, everyone who pays taxes to Queen's Park.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Damn it! Scheduled short turns at Laird? How stupid! I can't believe that there's no way a storage track can be built at Don Mills as that's going to be the busiest stop east of Yonge, what about a three track station where trains can be turned in service? Gahhh!

I am really beginning to wash my hands of following transit "planning" in Toronto.

Who makes these decisions? Who decides that short-turning trains at Laird is a good idea, or that an alignment that emerges on the south side of Eglinton at Brentcliffe must necessarily cross 3 lanes of traffic to go in the centre of the road and disrupt a major intersection? What are these people thinking? Why are these decisions simultaneously less effective and more expensive and completely ignorant of transit demand patterns and how traffic operates?

Our city is full of smart, creative people who are passionate about transit and have genuinely good ideas. Often they come together at roundtables and events and sites like this and they discuss these things and what results is usually clever and cost-effective. Unfortunately, that talent is completely wasted as those ideas remain just that: ideas. Meanwhile, people who actually have decision-making authority come out with bullshit like this. Why is there such a disconnect between homegrown talent in the field of transit planning and the people who actually have control?

It's actually pretty apt that you put up a picture of Frank Grimes (and that's why I left it quoted, mods) because it's a pretty apt metaphor for transit planning in Toronto. The Frank Grimes episode was the beginning of the end of the Simpsons for me. It was when the producers and writers took a brilliant show and systematically began to dismantle everything that made it brilliant. Despite tumbling ratings and almost total acknowledgment that they have alienated their entire fanbase, the show continues to be created. And yet, given the fact that the show is unpopular and a mockery of itself, the question is "why is it still being produced?" Are the people in charge of the Simpsons so removed from the experience of the viewers? Are the people who plan transit in Toronto so completely removed from the experience of its users?

 

[rbt]

Leslie is the CP line

Yes, I know that; it quite conveniently crosses the Richmond Hill line "just south of Lawrence & DVP" and could be joined there. The CP line is straighter and would "take ~5 minutes travel time off the existing Richmond Hill route."

The entire point is that it isn't the existing Richmond Hill line. It's a better one.

 

[ShonTron]

It's actually pretty apt that you put up a picture of Frank Grimes (and that's why I left it quoted, mods) because it's a pretty apt metaphor for transit planning in Toronto. The Frank Grimes episode was the beginning of the end of the Simpsons for me. It was when the producers and writers took a brilliant show and systematically began to dismantle everything that made it brilliant. Despite tumbling ratings and almost total acknowledgment that they have alienated their entire fanbase, the show continues to be created. And yet, given the fact that the show is unpopular and a mockery of itself, the question is "why is it still being produced?" Are the people in charge of the Simpsons so removed from the experience of the viewers? Are the people who plan transit in Toronto so completely removed from the experience of its users?

The Frank Grimes episode would have made a very good series finale, come to think of it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Our city is full of smart, creative people who are passionate about transit and have genuinely good ideas. Often they come together at roundtables and events and sites like this and they discuss these things and what results is usually clever and cost-effective. Unfortunately, that talent is completely wasted as those ideas remain just that: ideas. Meanwhile, people who actually have decision-making authority come out with bullshit like this. Why is there such a disconnect between homegrown talent in the field of transit planning and the people who actually have control?

...

It's actually pretty apt that you put up a picture of Frank Grimes (and that's why I left it quoted, mods) because it's a pretty apt metaphor for transit planning in Toronto.

I usually try to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, they may have some secret data that we don't have access to.

But seriously, it's frustrating seeing ML/TTC make so many mistakes that we'll quite obviously come to regret a few years later. And even more frustrating is that it is so difficult to talk to anyone "in the know". A few decades ago, we could just ring the TTC office and someone could explain why they did or didn't do something. Now the staff that we're supposed to talk to either know nothing about the line, or are instructed not to disclose some information. It's as if they don't want the public to know what they're doing and don't care for input from anybody.

 

[Johnny Au]

Here is some more information about Frank Grimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer's_Enemy

The episode is among the darkest in the series outside of the Treehouse of Horror specials

 

[Hipster Duck]

I usually try to give them the benefit of the doubt. I mean, they may have some secret data that we don't have access to.

In some cases that might be true, but in others I'm left completely puzzled.

Apart from data, I tend to think of all the stakeholders who might have some vested interest in an outcome and think about how something that might appear dumb to us might benefit them in a narrow-minded way. Usually that's the reason things end up happening the way they do. However, I can't think of anyone who might benefit from something like putting the ROW in the median of Eglinton at Leslie, including people who don't care about transit.

Apart from the users of the line, I've identified the following stakeholders. In no way can I possibly see how it might benefit them.

1. Construction company that received the tender to do the project - no benefit, because the alignment requires crossing the eastbound lanes of Eglinton (so delays to construction, requirement to close lanes = cost overruns on a fixed budget).
2. EMS - no benefit, because the transition to median alignment of line now disrupts the flow of emergency vehicles (also can't cross into oncoming traffic, if necessary because of concrete curb in centre).
3. Local NIMBYs who demanded a stop at Leslie in the first place - no benefit, because even though they only have to cross half the width of Eglinton to get to their station, the median alignment disrupts the light cycle which slows down the efficiency of moving cars through, and most of these people primarily use cars as their means of transportation.

You see what I mean?