[Adjei]

Plus the guy is promising to build all the subways through being efficient in government which we know is complete bullsh!t. He wants to build the Yonge extension, Downtown relief line, turn the Sheppard lrt into a subway, and also the Finch line into a subway. This basically equates to saying you won't build anything.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/02/subways-we-have-the-man-and-the-plan

 

[rbt]

For PC's, at least under Hudak, transit is low priority. If the the deficit cannot be eliminated by 2017 for whatever reason ...

Tax cuts. It was very clear in the last election priorities were:

1) Eliminate deficit
2) Tax cuts (which may recreate the deficit)
3) Transportation solutions; including ramping up highway development

I would speculate that much of the other half would be GO as it reaches conservative seats.

 

[sixrings]

I feel like a broken record but to me it makes sense to complete the Eglinton line to the Airport mainly so we can have one full example of what a LRT line will look like. I was a fan of Finch when it went all the way to yonge. Now it feels like a stub looking to be chopped. Im scared that the SELRT and FWLRT will be cut to extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview. The extension wouldnt bother be very much but it would mean that Eglinton is the ONLY LRT line in Toronto. If thats going to be the case at least complete the line so we have an example of LRT when we look to transit projects in the future.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I feel like a broken record but to me it makes sense to complete the Eglinton line to the Airport mainly so we can have one full example of what a LRT line will look like. I was a fan of Finch when it went all the way to yonge. Now it feels like a stub looking to be chopped. Im scared that the SELRT and FWLRT will be cut to extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview. The extension wouldnt bother be very much but it would mean that Eglinton is the ONLY LRT line in Toronto. If thats going to be the case at least complete the line so we have an example of LRT when we look to transit projects in the future.

I agree 100% The province needs to refund the entire thing to Renforth and Morningside at least.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I feel like a broken record but to me it makes sense to complete the Eglinton line to the Airport mainly so we can have one full example of what a LRT line will look like. I was a fan of Finch when it went all the way to yonge. Now it feels like a stub looking to be chopped. Im scared that the SELRT and FWLRT will be cut to extend the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview. The extension wouldnt bother be very much but it would mean that Eglinton is the ONLY LRT line in Toronto. If thats going to be the case at least complete the line so we have an example of LRT when we look to transit projects in the future.

Chances are that Chow will propose an Eglinton extension during the election.

 

[BurlOak]

Plus the guy is promising to build all the subways through being efficient in government which we know is complete bullsh!t. He wants to build the Yonge extension, Downtown relief line, turn the Sheppard lrt into a subway, and also the Finch line into a subway. This basically equates to saying you won't build anything.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/10/02/subways-we-have-the-man-and-the-plan

Lets take a Ministry at random - say energy. We have confirmed that $1.1B has been wasted on the Gas plants. The Wind Energy deal has not been investigated as much but it seems Billions have been wasted there generating intermittant energy (mostly in the windier should seasons of Spring and Fall - even though the peaks occur in Winter and Summer). It is probably in the $2B to $5B range - lets say $2B. Now multiply this $3B by 25 Ministries in Ontario and you get $75B. It appears that the entire Big Move could have been funded in 10 years.

PS. I acknowledge that this calculation is not perfect, but I think everyone will agree that the Liberals have done a terrible job economically and nobody in the province would accept paying anything extra in TAXES (they are not alternative revenue streams or funding sources) until we get a government that shows they can manage the money properly.

 

[GenerationW]

I agree 100% The province needs to refund the entire thing to Renforth and Morningside at least.

At least?? What's at most?

 

[Standard]

Lets take a Ministry at random - say energy. We have confirmed that $1.1B has been wasted on the Gas plants. The Wind Energy deal has not been investigated as much but it seems Billions have been wasted there generating intermittant energy (mostly in the windier should seasons of Spring and Fall - even though the peaks occur in Winter and Summer). It is probably in the $2B to $5B range - lets say $2B. Now multiply this $3B by 25 Ministries in Ontario and you get $75B. It appears that the entire Big Move could have been funded in 10 years.

PS. I acknowledge that this calculation is not perfect, but I think everyone will agree that the Liberals have done a terrible job economically and nobody in the province would accept paying anything extra in TAXES (they are not alternative revenue streams or funding sources) until we get a government that shows they can manage the money properly.

Just so you know, the Gas Plant fiasco will be paid off with an extra charge on everyone's electricity bill. So the money was not there in the first place and if it never happened we would not have that 1.1B for transit.

 

[BurlOak]

Just so you know, the Gas Plant fiasco will be paid off with an extra charge on everyone's electricity bill. So the money was not there in the first place and if it never happened we would not have that 1.1B for transit.

I do not understand your arguement.

If something is paid in cash, in full, then it could have been used towards transit. If anything is paid with future taxes - as all government expenses are, then it is not available for transit. I suppose you will agree that the $1B City property tax could not have been used for anything else since it was not there in the first place.

Money is money, and if it is wasted then it is no longer avaiable. It could have been available or I suppose it could have been wasted on something else.

 

[rbt]

I do not understand your arguement.

If something is paid in cash, in full, then it could have been used towards transit.

That is his point. It wasn't paid in cash in full from general revenues.

 

[Jimmy Olsen]

That is his point. It wasn't paid in cash in full from general revenues.

Makes sense. I think capital improvements for utilities are usually paid for through user fees as opposed to a new levy.

 

[Standard]

That is his point. It wasn't paid in cash in full from general revenues.

Thanks rbt for clarifying my point.

BurlOak, I do agree with you that there is waste in the government system as many services can be delivered more efficiently. The issue is how much waste is there and what can we realistically recover? If we even do save billions of dollars there is always the pressure of cutting taxes to "give the money back to the taxpayers" or funding many of our other pressing needs such as health and education.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Environmental Project Report Addendum is now available for the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit. - See this link.

In accordance with Ontario Regulation 231/08, the TTC and City of Toronto conducted an environmental impact assessment of the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) Project; a 33-kilometre electrically-powered LRT line extending from the Lester B. Pearson International Airport in the City of Mississauga to Kennedy Station in the City of Toronto. An Environmental Project Report (EPR) for this transit project was completed March 12, 2010 and a Statement of Completion submitted to the Ministry of the Environment in May 2010.

Subsequently, in 2012, Metrolinx assumed management responsibility for the project and has become the sole proponent. Metrolinx has identified the need to revise the project between Jane Street and Keelesdale Park to:

• Divide the implementation of the project into two phases at Weston Road (the site of the Mount Dennis Station) and proceed with the phase from Mount Dennis Station to Kennedy Station and defer the section from Weston Road to Pearson International Airport due to funding limitations;
• Include at the western terminus of the first phase (at Mount Dennis Station) a 15-bay bus terminal (not previously assessed in the original EPR);
• Re-configure the LRT between Jane Street and Keelesdale Park from a surface LRT line in the centre of Eglinton Avenue West to a grade-separated LRT line to improve operations; and,
• Assess the environmental impacts of a Maintenance and Storage Facility (MSF), where light rail vehicles would be maintained and stored (the effects of which were not previously assessed in the original EPR).

An addendum to the Environmental Project Report for the Eglinton Crosstown LRT has been prepared and is now available for a 30-day review period starting October 18, 2013.

To clarify:

The 2010 EPR was originally:

Between Jane Street and Keelesdale Park, the Project was proposed to be in the centre of Eglinton Avenue West with stops at Jane Street, Weston Road, and Black Creek Drive, at-grade intersections with Weston Road and Black Creek Drive and an at grade connection to the proposed Black Creek MSF

The revision includes:

Consolidation of the Weston Stop and the Black Creek Stop (both surface stops shown in the 2010 EPR) into one new underground Mount Dennis LRT Station located at the GO Transit Kitchener Rail corridor

Proposed 15-bay bus terminal and Passenger Pick Up and Drop off at the Mount Dennis LRT station.

The LRT mainline will connect to the MSF service tracks before it entering into the Mount Dennis LRT Station under the rail corridor. West of the station, the LRT will continue below-grade until emerging from a portal in the centre of Eglinton Avenue approximately 100m east of the Jane Street. West of the portal, the LRT will continue as an at-grade centre median LRT as previously approved.

Go to the link to download the PDFs, located near the bottom of the page.

 

[Ozman]

So while we wait for the next round of open houses/meetings re: the Eglinton Crosstown (which Metrolinx tells me will be happening this fall), I thought I'd muse about some of the ramifications of the line when it finally opens.

Please correct me if you find errors in my analysis or if you can add anything that perhaps I hadn't heard about or hadn't considered.

The storage track that was planned for east of Eglinton-Yonge station (in the EA) has been moved to near Avenue Road station (presumably east of the station). I believe it has been moved because Eglinton-Yonge is already so complex and the many utilities in the area make adding more complexity undesirable if not impossible. So eastbound trains will not be able to short-turn at Yonge if necessary but instead will have to continue to Laird. Westbound trains though, could short-turn at Yonge if there was a problem on the western portion of the line.

By reverting to the original EA, the (briefly proposed) 3-track 2-platform Don Mills station has been abandoned as the tunnel won't be going all the way to Don Mills. In the EA, it showed a storage track between Don Mills stn. and the east Don Mills portal but I believe when more detailed design was undertaken, it was found that the storage track would not fit between the station and the portal unless the portal was moved east. That would result in the elimination of the Ferrand stop which was (briefly) proposed then abandoned along with the extended tunnel. So Ferrand stop stays, the portal doesn't move and the storage track is eliminated. Since Don Mills won't be the last station of the tunnel, there's no point building an elaborate and expensive station when any short-turnings would happen at Laird as the easternmost grade-separated station. ATO would also not continue past Laird since the grade-separation ends when the line will cross through the Leslie intersection.

I still can't believe that they will actually build the line underground to two-thirds of the way from Laird to Leslie and then go underground again west of Don Mills only to have a small half-mile stretch at Leslie NOT be grade-separated. This one weak link will have considerable ramifications:

The headway will drop east of the tunnel section. Because of the end of grade-separation and the inability to use ATO, every other train will short-turn at Laird. So everyone from Mt. Dennis to Leaside will get good headways and frequent service. East of Laird, (including high-volume-future hub Don Mills) will get reduced service. This will mean that Don Mills station, with its high-volume and high-volume buses entering the terminal there will get reduced frequency service.

Lower volume Laird station will get better service and it will have no bus terminal at all. Here lies a huge potential problem. I believe the plan is to through-route north-south bus routes that cross Eglinton and presently turn along to go to the subway at Yonge Street. So the Avenue Road bus will run through from Queen's Park to Hwy. 401, the Mt. Pleasant from St. Clair Station to Doncliffe and the Leaside 56 will be combined with the Leslie 51 to go from Donlands station to Steeles.
This route will be travelling along Eglinton between Leslie and Laird and dumping passengers at Laird Station with no bus terminal. Additionally, there is a proposed Eglinton 34 route which will run from Mt. Dennis to Kennedy and most likely the South Leaside 88 will swing up and travel on Eglinton between Brentcliffe and Laird so it can feed the LRT as well. People travelling east on Eglinton (if on a short-turn train) may get off and get on the 34 at Laird (rather than wait for the next LRT only to have to transfer again closer to their destination). This would make sense at Don Mills with its terminal but will create more delays (through loading time) and thus traffic around Laird where there is no terminal.

Also, as someone else on this forum predicted, when the Lawrence East 54 (and Flemingdon Park 100) buses arrive at Don Mills terminal where they are proposed to terminate, and the LRT's are already full (due to reduced frequency) it will be chaos. Soon they'll end up sending the 54 or maybe both on to Laird where there are more trains and this will create traffic chaos in Leaside.

It should be interesting. Because Don Mills is a hub, because of ATO, and because of its bus terminal and feeder routes, the Eglinton Crosstown must be grade-separated to Don Mills. To fail to do so would be a colossal mistake in my opinion. They tried to extend the tunnel but abandoned that in the face of opposition by a few Leslie stop proponents. They then gave up on any south-side alignment alternative and seem to be resigned to the original EA plan.

If the east tunnel contract has indeed already been awarded, I fear it may already be too late but until they start digging, there's still hope. Surely they will come to their senses and devise a sensible plan like they did at the Mount Dennis end of the line. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[innsertnamehere]

There will be 90 second service on the grade seperated portion to deal with the much heavier demand, and every 3 minutes on the surface portion. Still great frequencies, equivalent to our entire subway network. I'm guessing Metrolinx will fix up the dumping spots for the Buses as well a bit. The LRT will work exactly as the Spadina line currently does, where every other train turns around at St. Clair. (which will be Eglinton when the LRT opens) When waiting for a train, and knowing that you will be traveling east of Laird, you simply wait for one that goes east of Laird. No transfers, just 90 seconds more waiting. Metrolinx will also be Running 3 car trains on this line, even on the surface portions, so that should help with capacity as well. (compared to 2 car trains on Sheppard and Finch)

I think it should grade seperated to Don Mills as well, but probably won't be the disaster you are predicting. I doubt they have handed out the Eastern contract yet either as they still need to figure out what to do with the TBMs when they get to Yonge street, which is what they will be doing in the Fall.