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Not gonna happen. Those revenue tools are going entirely towards the Metrolinx 2nd Wave projects, starting with the DRL. Eglinton West was never announced.

Who said anything about Metrolinx?

I am hopeful that Chow and/or Tory will bring forward additional transit expansion plan with a plan for the city to pay for it. People with connections have suggested that both of their campaigns will have a serious focus on transportation, beyond just lines on a map and hoping for money to pay for it. I suppose we'll know for sure in the next few months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed
 
I always assumed it was partly because they were paying for it so they have control, partly to prevent Rob Ford from trying to cancel it completely.

It's been funny watching the crosstown website over the years, it used to have a TTC logo and Metrolinx logo, now they've eradicated any trace of the TTC. The vehicles they show are always green as well.

Thats right it does shown green. Does this mean the Finch LRT wi8lol also be green? I always assumed it was to be red like the streetcars and I thought they were red when I went to the Keele sttaion open house. Amazing how this happens behind the scene and we don't hear anything about it. It will be a problem if the PC ever get in and will try to privarize it. This should be a major isssue.
 
Who said anything about Metrolinx?

I am hopeful that Chow and/or Tory will bring forward additional transit expansion plan with a plan for the city to pay for it. People with connections have suggested that both of their campaigns will have a serious focus on transportation, beyond just lines on a map and hoping for money to pay for it. I suppose we'll know for sure in the next few months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

Again, all Toronto can do is debate which plan gets on Metrolinx's desk. They can't bring anything on their own which was made obvious through this term. Queen's Park controls subway extensions along with LRT lines. All that Toronto can do is build streetcars and manage bus routes. Uploading subways and LRT to GO is starting to make way more sense...especially if it saves us from another theatrical debacle at city hall
 
Again, all Toronto can do is debate which plan gets on Metrolinx's desk. They can't bring anything on their own which was made obvious through this term. Queen's Park controls subway extensions along with LRT lines.

What??? Toronto can build whatever new subway/LRT lines/extension it want to. It doesn't need provincial approval.

Surely I've misinterpreted what you've said.
 
I do have my reservations about using the Richview Corridor for the LRT. It may be better to use a ROW and sell off the lands north of the line to developers. This would help to create a far more walkable community along the LRT route. The lack of lights on Eglinton West hopefully means that the LRT wouldn't be any slower than if it used Richview. However your concerns about the bus terminals are fully valid. Using Richview would definitely mitigate those concerns as well as better future proof the line.

Anyways if we do utilize the Richview Corridor elevating or trenching along the whole route will probably be too expensive given how few passengers we're expecting east of Jane.

On the 3 km stretch between Martin Grove and Royal York I'd prefer for the LRT to run north of Eglinton along the Richview Corridor. This would run at grade in a fully protected corridor, with stations at Martin Grove, Kipling, Islington and Royal York. At those streets, the LRT would dip just below grade in a trench where the LRT station will be built. At the other end of the station the line would rise to at grade again. This would allow for a proper bus terminal setup. With at least 1 km between each station we should have more than enough room to transition from below grade to at grade and back below again. Drivers on Russell Road, Wincott Drive and Widdicombe Hill Boulevard would have to cross the LRT tracks through a level crossing, where the LRT would have full signal priority. I'm not expecting these level crossing to be detrimental to operations since they're all small residential streets. The cost of this would hopefully be comparable to the cost of reconfiguring Eglinton West with a ROW.

Just east of Royal York we come into contact with some buildings, meaning that we can't build tracks on the north side of Eglinton. At Royal York Station (trenched) there would be an underground portal at the east side of the station that would run under the westbound lanes of Eglinton so that the line could transition to a centre ROW on Eglinton West. The line would continue along the ROW until just west of Scarlett road, where there'd be a portal running under the westbound lanes to a trenched station on the north side of Eglinton at Scarlett. This is essentially the same setup I described for Royal York station, just with the portal on the west side of the station rather than the east. Even through this section is in a ROW, the LRT would be fully protected from traffic as there are no street crossings between Royal York and Scarlett.

The LRT continues at grade on the at grade north side of Eglinton until Jane, where it will become elevated to connect to the planned elevated western terminus of the ECLRT at Weston Road. An elevated station would be built at Jane.

I'd expect the stations to be barebones so that costs can be kept low. They'd be unmanned, have a simple enclosed platform, (eg platforms at any of our at-grade subway stations) and have escalators/elevators. What I describe is probably the cheapest way to go about using Richview. It would very likely cost about the same as the ROW as long as we don't go crazy with station design.

Very good analysis. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to your idea, and for me it's really a toss-up between trenching and elevating. To me, the setup that you're describing sounds a lot like the Scott St Transitway trench in Ottawa. It works quite well.

As for manned/unmanned stations, how is having an unmanned 'station' any different than having an unmanned 'stop'? I understand that it perhaps is from a security perspective, but from a navigational help perspective, it's really the same thing.
 
Who said anything about Metrolinx?

I am hopeful that Chow and/or Tory will bring forward additional transit expansion plan with a plan for the city to pay for it. People with connections have suggested that both of their campaigns will have a serious focus on transportation, beyond just lines on a map and hoping for money to pay for it. I suppose we'll know for sure in the next few months. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

I'm hopeful for the same. Perhaps the Province/Metrolinx will have one set of priorities using Provincial/Revenue Tools money, and Toronto will have a list of more 'local' priorities to be funded with their own revenue tools. I would suspect that the Eglinton West extension, the central portion of the Finch West LRT, and the Waterfront West LRT would be on that list.

Metrolinx seems to be focusing on transit projects with a regional purpose (DRT Pulse, VIVA, Dundas BRT, Hurontario LRT, DRL, GO improvements), and not so much ones that have an area or neighbourhood purpose (like the ones mentioned above).

I would suspect that Toronto won't be the only ones trying to look for money to 'fill in the gaps' in their networks with more locally-oriented projects. Brampton's Zum corridors and some of the VIVA Rapidway corridors also come to mind.
 
What??? Toronto can build whatever new subway/LRT lines/extension it want to. It doesn't need provincial approval.

Surely I've misinterpreted what you've said.

On paper, you're right but Toronto doesn't have the financial resources to do it unless they increase taxes significantly...which will never happen. This fact is why the Queen's Park by default have all the power since they're the one paying the bill. That's why I said they might as well upload it so the city of Toronto won't be the only one in the province to subsidize it.
 
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Thats right it does shown green. Does this mean the Finch LRT wi8lol also be green? I always assumed it was to be red like the streetcars and I thought they were red when I went to the Keele sttaion open house. Amazing how this happens behind the scene and we don't hear anything about it. It will be a problem if the PC ever get in and will try to privarize it. This should be a major isssue.

I'm hoping that our next TTC Chair will push for the three lines to be downgraded to the City of Toronto when it comes time to negotiate how maintenance and operation costs will be split between TTC and Metrolinx.
 
The trains will be red.. Metrolinx is just doing all the renders in Green as it is their project. Metrolinx will be contracting out operations to the TTC, so the TTC will probably want them to be red.

I'd much rather that Metrolinx own the project, it keeps costs down for the TTC.
 
I'm hoping that our next TTC Chair will push for the three lines to be downgraded to the City of Toronto when it comes time to negotiate how maintenance and operation costs will be split between TTC and Metrolinx.

Why on earth would you want that? As of now the LRT maintenance costs are assumed by the province. If we go with your play, the burden falls on the TTC and the City of Toronto
 
On paper, you're right but Toronto doesn't have the financial resources to do it unless they increase taxes significantly...which will never happen. This fact is why the Queen's Park by default have all the power.

I wouldn't count on that. Many cities of similar size have raised taxes to build transit. And Torontoninans showed near unanimous support for the additional taxes in Stintz's OneCity transit plan. In the municipal election campaign we will very likely see at least one major candidate campaign on something similar.
 
I wouldn't count on that. Many cities of similar size have raised taxes to build transit. And Torontoninans showed near unanimous support for the additional taxes in Stintz's OneCity transit plan. In the municipal election campaign we will very likely see at least one major candidate campaign on something similar.

A poll doesn't mean anything. I for one would put some referendum questions in the next election regarding transit and how to fund it.
 
A poll doesn't mean anything. I for one would put some referendum questions in the next election regarding transit and how to fund it.

A poll showing 80% support for anything.... that means something. You almost never get 80% of people agreeing on anything, let alone on massive tax increases to build more transit.


That poll shows that Toronto residents across the political spectrum are incredibly receptive to the idea of higher taxes. If the right candidate brings forward the idea then there's an incredibly good chance that the taxes will pass.

I'm hoping that Chow & Tory bring forward the idea. It's about time that we considered the idea.
 
I wouldn't count on that. Many cities of similar size have raised taxes to build transit. And Torontoninans showed near unanimous support for the additional taxes in Stintz's OneCity transit plan. In the municipal election campaign we will very likely see at least one major candidate campaign on something similar.

Even LA did it
 
Why on earth would you want that? As of now the LRT maintenance costs are assumed by the province. If we go with your play, the burden falls on the TTC and the City of Toronto

Honestly it's because I don't trust the Province of Ontario not to screw it up. I'm sure that the PCs would just love to pick off the ECLRT, FWLRT and SELRT and sell it off at a discount to some private operator who will milk the City for subsidies like they did with the 407 boondoggle. If Metrolinx is so concerned with making sure that the city can pay for operations, then maybe they should go back to properly subsidizing transit operations like they did pre 1990s.

Furthermore local transit operations have always been municipal jurisdiction. Eglinton, Finch West and Sheppard East are most definitely local transit; no less so than any simple bus route on those streets. We wouldn't expect provincial bureaucrats to be in charge of the 199 Finch route or 510 Spadina, so why do we now expect them to be in charge in operating local LRT routes on Finch or Sheppard? I have no problem with Metrolinx running GO and coordinating transit development across the region. But it feels like a serious encroachment for provincial bureaucrats to be deciding that they should be running local transit routes. Especially when the municipality in question has a fully capable agency that for centuries has been in charge of massive transit operations on a scale that is unheard of to said provincial bureaucrats.

If the province wants to be helpful then they can feel free subsidize the operations of the lines. But they have no business running local transit on Finch, Sheppard or Eglinton. That is something for a municipality and its local Council to oversee (as long as they're capable of overseeing something of that size)
 
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