[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Many people might not know this, but YRT does not drive any of their buses, all routes are contracted out to either Miller, TOK or Veolia.

I feel like everyone got a real education on that during the strike

Adding to this, YRT has substantially less control of the planning of TTC routes that extend into York Region, it must be OK'd by the TTC before being implemented because they can often affect scheduling and frequencies south of Steeles if the route is too long, or if there are issues.

I think the whole fare integration is a non-starter unless the Province steps in. Even the subways going north of Steeles will require users to pay a double fare unless something gets agreed upon before opening day. The TTC is very strict about retaining it's own revenue and does not like to share with YRT (for good reason TBH). If there was fare integration you'd see YRT and TTC lose money considering there's a potential loss of $3-4 per customer that transfers if you completely get rid of that double fare. I think out of all the issues that YRT faces, the fare integration issue is the one that they have the least control over and are less equipped to change.

Clearly it's a fundamental, congenital problem for YRT that most of its population is strung along the Toronto border. I agree the province will have to change this, and I expect they will. The Golden Transit Panel listed it as one of their priorities. I don't know if it helps or hinders TTC but someone (Metrolinx?!) should take a lot at transit in all the GTA's border regions and figure something out. I don't know that anywhere else has a problem as acute as this (Mississauga's population isn't strung along the Etobicoke border, for instance) and it makes things harder for riders and for YRT. I think as long as York Region has a single transit system butting up against the TTC in the south, and a dispersed rural population in the north, there are some big challenges for them to meet.

 

[xtremesniper]

BMO, I saw the plans for the new Viva routes in a pdf some time ago and I recall being completely perplexed as to why YRT continues to ignore 16th Ave as a major road. It connects to Vaughan Mills, Wonderland, Hillcrest Mall, King Square Mall (soon), and various other developments along the way, not to mention the extremely built up residential areas that Major Mac lacks.

Buttonville Airport is soon turning into a major business park, too.

I don't see any such density or destinations along Major Mac to warrant making it a Viva route other than to simply separate the lines enough from 7.

What's going on there? Does YRT just love to build transit where there is no one to use it? (Enterprise Road seems to be working great for them, right?)

 

[canarob]

It's in this document: http://www.yrt.ca/en/aboutus/resources/2014_ASP_06_RapidTransit_NetworkPlan.pdf

Well, it only goes on Major Mac between Jane and Leslie as I think the idea is that it will better serve the business parks between the 400 and 404. I agree that 16th really needs more decent service though. Also, once the Scarb subway makes its way to McCowan and Sheppard, there also needs to be some kind of VIVA that connects with that as well. Something that looped and connected Unionville GO, Markham Centre, and Markville would be idea (maybe just extend the Pink line down McCowan?).

 

[BMO]

BMO, I saw the plans for the new Viva routes in a pdf some time ago and I recall being completely perplexed as to why YRT continues to ignore 16th Ave as a major road. It connects to Vaughan Mills, Wonderland, Hillcrest Mall, King Square Mall (soon), and various other developments along the way, not to mention the extremely built up residential areas that Major Mac lacks.

Buttonville Airport is soon turning into a major business park, too.

I don't see any such density or destinations along Major Mac to warrant making it a Viva route other than to simply separate the lines enough from 7.

What's going on there? Does YRT just love to build transit where there is no one to use it? (Enterprise Road seems to be working great for them, right?)

It's because 16th isn't designated as a rapid transit corridor in the region's official plan. I don't know why, but it is how it is. Some other pieces to note are the relative low densities along the route with a few trip generators at Jane, Yonge and Leslie areas and some minor trip generators at Bathurst and Keel (could argue the Maple GO @ Keel).Notwithstanding I don't think there's even any residential building on the entire line that is larger than 2 stories (please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect, maybe an update to the OP will change it's designation once a final plan for the Buttonville airport lands is finalized. But I also believe this may be restricted to the eastern portion of 16th as the western is pretty restricted with regards to zoning based on what I've seen. Still, would be nice to get an express route to Vaughan Mills/ Wonderland.

With regards to Major Mac, it connects to Wonderland, the Richmond Hill GO and Major Mac GO stations, Two hospitals, 3 or 4 high schools and basically within a block of two city halls (Richmond Hill and Vaughan). Overall It really is a line that makes sense for higher order transit since a lot of these trip generators are catering to demographics that are more likely to take transit (elderly, students.) Typically business parks and manufacturing aren't always the best for ridership because they have specific peaks during the day and then the rest of the night or midday you don't get any ridership (same goes for a route along just low-rise buildings). I think with the routes doing an upside down "U" we'll see some pretty decent ridership for these routes as they are well suited for a mixture of users (commuters, students, seniors) and mixture of trips.

 

[Electrify]

I hope that when construction starts on the Yonge busway, they either change the Viva Green's routing or put in a frequent bus with similar routing. Would be great to bypass the mess it will create for Toronto bound passengers from northern York Region.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The busway isn't going to be built south of highway 7, so it shouldn't impact pink or purple users.

 

[xtremesniper]

It's because 16th isn't designated as a rapid transit corridor in the region's official plan. I don't know why, but it is how it is. Some other pieces to note are the relative low densities along the route with a few trip generators at Jane, Yonge and Leslie areas and some minor trip generators at Bathurst and Keel (could argue the Maple GO @ Keel).Notwithstanding I don't think there's even any residential building on the entire line that is larger than 2 stories (please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect, maybe an update to the OP will change it's designation once a final plan for the Buttonville airport lands is finalized. But I also believe this may be restricted to the eastern portion of 16th as the western is pretty restricted with regards to zoning based on what I've seen. Still, would be nice to get an express route to Vaughan Mills/ Wonderland.

With regards to Major Mac, it connects to Wonderland, the Richmond Hill GO and Major Mac GO stations, Two hospitals, 3 or 4 high schools and basically within a block of two city halls (Richmond Hill and Vaughan). Overall It really is a line that makes sense for higher order transit since a lot of these trip generators are catering to demographics that are more likely to take transit (elderly, students.) Typically business parks and manufacturing aren't always the best for ridership because they have specific peaks during the day and then the rest of the night or midday you don't get any ridership (same goes for a route along just low-rise buildings). I think with the routes doing an upside down "U" we'll see some pretty decent ridership for these routes as they are well suited for a mixture of users (commuters, students, seniors) and mixture of trips.

I see. Then it's unfortunate that they don't think of 16th as a rapid transit corridor. As a citizen of the region that travels in and around just about everywhere on a daily basis, I view each east/west street as a vital corridor that should be taken seriously in sequence from south to north.

Meaning, I think Highway 7 is really important, and I think 16th is next most important, and I think Major Mac follows 16th in importance. Why? Because that's how the density and traffic patterns dictate it to be. 16th is always busier and heavier in traffic volume than Major Mac and will likely be that way for the foreseeable future, and likewise Highway 7 will be busier than 16th as well.

Yes, Major Mac has quite a few things going for it but west of Bathurst the density falls off the face of the earth into nothingness-land. 16th/Rutherford does have a similar drop-off but the residential build-up never ceases and eventually Jane comes along and it's traffic mayhem at almost all waking hours of the day with no relief in sight.

I agree that 16th on the east (Markham) side is a more viable candidate for transit than the west (Vaughan) side. But that's a fundamental flaw in Vaughan's planning that I've always criticized. Markham has many streets that allow alleviation of traffic off major corridors, while Vaughan has far too many dead-ends and no-exit roads that provide no relief whatsoever.

If 16th must play second-fiddle to Major Mac, then they should at least realize that they will never see proper transit usage there unless they provide decent feeder coverage to the nearby major routes, but that's already been discussed before.

 

[canarob]

The year end numbers are finally up and there was only 2.4% ridership growth over 2012: http://www.york.ca/wps/wcm/connect/...-06377528e99d/feb+6+ridership.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

The rapidways seems to be helping though: VIVA Purple is up 14.5% and Pink 21.7%.

VIVA was up 8.1% overall and the rest of YRT was down -1.6%.

Ridership was up in Markham (4.8%), Aurora (8.9%) and Newmarket (20.3%) and down in Vaughan (-7.3%) and Richmond Hill (-3.6%).

 

[BMO]

The year end numbers are finally up and there was only 2.4% ridership growth over 2012: http://www.york.ca/wps/wcm/connect/...-06377528e99d/feb+6+ridership.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

The rapidways seems to be helping though: VIVA Purple is up 14.5% and Pink 21.7%.

VIVA was up 8.1% overall and the rest of YRT was down -1.6%.

Ridership was up in Markham (4.8%), Aurora (8.9%) and Newmarket (20.3%) and down in Vaughan (-7.3%) and Richmond Hill (-3.6%).

Numbers will be inflated for VIVA Purple and Pink due to improved service on Purple that had severe delays during construction (and required a timely detour for Bayview Station) of the Yonge-404 rapidway. These may be passengers that are coming back to the service. Surprised by the loss in Richmond Hill. I expected to see ridership take a loss in Vaughan due to all the construction going on in VCC, but Richmond Hill is odd.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That's incredible growth in Newmarket.. Any reason why?

 

[doady]

That's incredible growth in Newmarket.. Any reason why?

How much service did Newmarket have during the 2011/2012 strike?

Numbers will be inflated for VIVA Purple and Pink due to improved service on Purple that had severe delays during construction (and required a timely detour for Bayview Station) of the Yonge-404 rapidway. These may be passengers that are coming back to the service. Surprised by the loss in Richmond Hill. I expected to see ridership take a loss in Vaughan due to all the construction going on in VCC, but Richmond Hill is odd.

Perhaps Richmond Hill was less affected by the strike.

YRT lost around 1 million riders in January and February 2012, but still only ended up gaining 0.5 million riders in 2013. That's pretty bad.

Economic conditions aren't that great (Brampton Transit also exprienced slower growth in 2013), but there's no excuse for such slow growth over a previous year where there was a labour disruption for over a month, especially with a new transitway constructed.

Look at June 2012 vs. 2013: ridership loss of 5.4%. December 2012 vs. 2013: ridership loss of 6.5%. Those are just terrible numbers, wow.

If it weren't the strike, YRT would probably see ridersihp decline in 2013. Or maybe riders became fed up with the constant labour disruption and sought alternatives.

 

[taal]

Wow that's less then I thought ... hey ... I've noticed just about all work on the rapid way in Markham (past the 404) has stopped !! For the last 3 weeks or so, any idea why ?

Any idea what the TTC numbers were for the year ?

 

[xtremesniper]

Wow that's less then I thought ... hey ... I've noticed just about all work on the rapid way in Markham (past the 404) has stopped !! For the last 3 weeks or so, any idea why ?

Any idea what the TTC numbers were for the year ?

I saw some workers walking about at Town Centre Blvd the other morning... Not sure about the rest of Hwy 7 since I avoid it like the plague. It's probably weather related.

 

[smallspy]

If it weren't the strike, YRT would probably see ridersihp decline in 2013. Or maybe riders became fed up with the constant labour disruption and sought alternatives.

It's not just the labour disruptions.

YRT's service is shite. That alone has turned off a lot of people. If you can't rely on a bus being at your stop when its supposed to be there, you're not going to be using that option anymore.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[BMO]

It's not just the labour disruptions.

YRT's service is shite. That alone has turned off a lot of people. If you can't rely on a bus being at your stop when its supposed to be there, you're not going to be using that option anymore.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I suspect the service is really going through some growing pains until VIVA is completed. The construction is really hurting On-time performance on a lot of routes and congestion is just getting worse day-by-day.