[Silence&Motion]

The Toronto focus on debates does seem rather bizarre. How many debates did Hazel ever do? If the number is bigger than none.

The campaign should be a lot shorter. No signups until Labour Day. A handful of debates that are properly moderated. If the audience isn't behaving it should be turfed. You don't see that kind of shit in provincial debates.

Exactly.

Of course, everyone who thinks women face no disadvantages in politics can go back to sticking their head in the sand. There's a reason we need things like WiTOpoli.

 

[kEiThZ]

+1. If Chow interrupts the debate to lay down a fiery put down -- "Go back to China? You crawl back under your rock. Toronto is MY city, where I grew up. Nobody 's chasing me away from MY city!" -- she wins the night hands down. "I didn't hear it" when everyone else did? It's just poor politics.

I wouldn't fault her for that. I'd be stunned at facing that kind of racist attack. I'd think it was best to ignore it and move on too. Why give a racist the pleasure of a response?

But I do see your point...

 

[nfitz]

And by nfitz's definition, 70% of Toronto (all who vote for Ford or Tory) are bigots.

I have no idea what you mean. I don't think that 70% of Toronto believe that John Tory is a racist.

I'd appreciate if you stop your bullying BTW.

 

[picard102]

Exactly.

Of course, everyone who thinks women face no disadvantages in politics can go back to sticking their head in the sand. There's a reason we need things like WiTOpoli.

So to help women in politics we should have shorter election periods and less debates?
Helping women consists of hearing them less?

 

[kEiThZ]

I have no idea what you mean. I don't think that 70% of Toronto believe that John Tory is a racist.

I'd appreciate if you stop your bullying BTW.

Let's go through this very carefully.

1) You have said that anyone who votes for Ford is a Bigot. That's 30% right there.

2) You said John Tory is a bigot for supporting Ford. I assume that you apply similar logic as 1 to John Tory's supporters.

Ergo, you think 70% of this city is composed of bigots. If I have your logic wrong, please feel free to correct me. Is Ford not a bigot? Are Ford supporters not bigots in your view? Do you think John Tory is not a bigot for supporting Ford? Did you not say that anyone who votes for/supports a bigot is a bigot themselves?

It's not bullying to point out your very own logic. Nobody else around here labels vast chunks of the electorate as bigots. That viewpoint is unique to you.

I'm just curious why you choose to live in a place where you honestly think 70% of the populace are bigots. Personally, I'd run very fast, if I thought I lived in a place where even 10% of the population held staunch bigoted views. But that's just me. So what motivates you to keep staying in Toronto, when you think the vast of majority of residents are bigots themselves or at least support bigots?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Go to the real estate forum. There are members who actively call Scarborough "scary". I wonder why that is?

More to the point, I don't label others and I don't label others by association (the mere association of voting). Do I think there's an element of disdain for other socioeconomic classes by some in this city? Sure.

Do I label 30% of the population as bigots (like nfitz does)? No. I keep my disagreements to the policies I disagree with.

And by nfitz's definition, 70% of Toronto (all who vote for Ford or Tory) are bigots. So again, why does Nick Fitzgerald choose to live in a town where he sincerely believes 70% of the population is composed of bigots?

Your defence does explain why he gets away with his incessant bullying....

Let's not quibble here, you have no issue with labelling racism on the basis of vague socioeconomic class [sic "the elites" - whatever that meant] or because they don't support Scarborough Subway. To me that's no different a set of behaviour than what nfitz is engaging (i.e. guilt by association).

And don't confound my criticism of your stance as a vote or defence for nfitz - you can search the forums and see that I have grave issues with that.

AoD

 

[NorthYorkEd]

I wouldn't fault her for that. I'd be stunned at facing that kind of racist attack. I'd think it was best to ignore it and move on too. Why give a racist the pleasure of a response?

That dumb bastard should have been ridiculed and mocked by the crowd, and shamed into slinking back into whatever sewage pit it was that spat him out. Olivia shouldn't have had to do anything. But bastards that stupid have no sense of shame, nor can they be reasoned with, nor can they comprehend what it means to act like a human being. He is a mental cripple; a waste of sperm and egg. Nothing but ooze on the bottom of the shoe of humanity.

I don't wish ill upon any person, but if the universe should randomly select someone to cull from the herd, it could do worse than to start with that rag of human filth.

 

[kEiThZ]

So to help women in politics we should have shorter election periods and less debates?
Helping women consists of hearing them less?

Not just that. Why should there be a different framework in the first place?

There is nothing inherently sexist about a longer election period and lots of debates. Heck, look at the American Presidential race and what Hilary Clinton is about to do. I think it's actually sexist to suggest that female candidates might wilt under the pressure, so therefore we need easier elections.

What we need are more and better female candidates (not more Sarah Thompsons). Not easier elections.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Exactly.

Of course, everyone who thinks women face no disadvantages in politics can go back to sticking their head in the sand. There's a reason we need things like WiTOpoli.

Not being facetious - but how much real impact does WiTOpoli has? I think women are disadvantaged in politics, no doubt, but it also takes two to tango - you have to get to the top first before you are in any position to make changes (others would disagree with this view, but *shrugs*)

AoD

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The problem is Slience seems to believe that she is a women and small. Susan Fennell is also a woman. Olivia is a bad candidate and not a leader. Doug is a leader, more then Rob.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

den:

It's part and parcel of our political system, which is a no-holds-barred, zero-sum, winner takes all process that is coloured by sex norms of the general public. I hesitate to label that as a male/female thing given the inherit stereotypes, but just think about the successful female politicians and their characteristics.

AoD

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

den:

It's part and parcel of our political system, which is a no-holds-barred, zero-sum, winner takes all process that is coloured by sex norms of the general public. I hesitate to label that as a male/female thing given the inherit stereotypes, but just think about the successful female politicians and their characteristics.

AoD

That's fair, Fennell is closer to the fords, in style especially. I still think Olivia should have won this running away. She's the one that knows Toronto the best.

 

[nfitz]

Let's go through this very carefully.

1) You have said that anyone who votes for Ford is a Bigot. That's 30% right there.

Yes, I have. Anyone who knowingly supports a racist, is a racist. Though I have to think that some of that 30% is just grossly ignorant, given his support in ethnic communities. We keep hearing how he gets a good proportion of the non-white vote. I'd guess about half.

2) You said John Tory is a bigot for supporting Ford. I assume that you apply similar logic as 1 to John Tory's supporters.

No ... anytime I point out to people in person that John Tory supported Rob Ford, they are shocked to hear this. Ergo

Ergo, you think 70% of this city is composed of bigots. If I have your logic wrong, please feel free to correct me.

Consider yourself corrected.

It's not bullying to point out your very own logic.

No, of course it isn't. It is however bullying to accuse people of slander, who have never slandered anyone here in this forum. It is bullying to call people names, which you have done. It is bullying to try and out someone's identity (though somewhat amusing), and then encourage them to leave town. When I refer to your bullying, I don't mean your debate. I mean your false claims about what I have done, your name-calling, and your attempted intimidation. When was name-calling, bullying, and intimidation of other posters allowed here?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

That's fair, Fennell is closer to the fords, in style especially. I still think Olivia should have won this running away. She's the one that knows Toronto the best.

Not really, I think Olivia came with a lot of baggage - be it political (leftwing NDPer label) and personal (assumed coatailing on Layton, etc.). Niceness is helpful for the image, but ultimately it doesn't get you elected.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Not really, I think Olivia came with a lot of baggage - be it political (leftwing NDPer label) and personal (assumed coatailing on Layton, etc.). Niceness is helpful for the image, but ultimately it doesn't get you elected.

Chow was councillor from 1991 to 2005, and I was gone from Toronto from 1990 until beginning of 2005. I'm not really that familiar with Chow's work on council.

However, what I did get was mostly quite negative in the press outside of Toronto, often related to her opposition to the police (which in retrospect was probably a good thing, but the media didn't really play it like that at the time). If other's got the same view of her as I did, then it doesn't help.

I can't quite say what she's done since going to Ottawa other than being a foot-soldier, and her push to provide more federal funding for transit. I'm hardly the most unobservant voter out there.