[zang]

The fact that trains can fly though the underground portion while struggling at the surface level is further justification that we should have built a subway instead.

Why? Japan runs far more above ground than they do below ground, and it's arguably one of the fastest, most efficient systems in the world (despite multiple service operators). The Yamanote Line in runs with as little as a 2 minute headway, has street level crossings and is one of the busiest in the country. Functionally, it's pretty much the same as an LRT.

The problem in Toronto will be (and has always been) the sheer amount of priority given to cars, and not the need to bury stuff so it's out of the way of them.

 

[urbanclient]

Aside from just the increased time and logistics required for a fully underground system

I substantially agree with your overall point, but it's unclear whether a fully underground system would've taken longer to build in Eglinton's specific case.

The added complexity of the 6 transitions between surface, underground, elevated, and the custom signalling etc. wasted a LOT of time and money. Also wider tunnels than the Line 1 subway extension to Vaughan (dug by 4 TBMs instead of 2), and expensive 90 metre platforms. And no, the tunnels were not made wide simply due to catenary. Most taller, wider metros using overhead wire actually run in narrower tunnels than Eglinton.

Consider the fact that it's been nearly 16 years since early works started on Eglinton. A similar metro project, regardless of it being fully underground or not should take 7-10 years.

Yamanote Line [...] Functionally, it's pretty much the same as an LRT.

No it is not. Why are you falsely equating a surface running, virtually fully grade-separated metro with a street median running tram? When people bring up Europe, Japan et al, to defend trams, why do they have a habit of comparing apples to oranges? Surface running is not mutually exclusive with the concept of grade separation. See Line 1 down Allen Road.

Running metro-style rolling stock & 220 metre trainset lengths, specifically called "heavy rail" on wikipedia....

 

[urbanclient]

Was the word "virtually" an edit after you realized the Yamanote makes grade-level crossings?

yamanote line street level crossings at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

I have been on the line before. It has one remaining level-crossing since 2005, scheduled to be removed by 2029-30, and certainly not in the manner of a street median tram. It has/had protected crossings like a regular rail line. Pardon me for not noticing the one level crossing because I was probably on my phone.

Nitpicking my edit doesn't take away from your demonstrably misleading claim. If everything from old-timey PCC streetcars to at-grade & elevated metro can be called LRT, the word is completely meaningless. The success of the Yamanote Line and the other 1,000 km+ metro rail lines in Tokyo cannot be applied to solving the weaknesses of trams, much less Metrolinx's incompetence building them. Trams have many advantages, being like the Yamanote Line is not one of them.

Last Railway Crossing on Yamanote Line in Tokyo to be Removed

<p>The only remaining railroad crossing on the JR Yamanote Line in Tokyo will be removed as the Tokyo metropolitan government decided to build a new stretch of road near the crossing in Kita Ward and construct an overpass over the tracks.</p>

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

 

[zang]

I have been on the line before. It has one remaining level-crossing scheduled to be removed by 2029-30, and certainly not in the manner of a street median tram.

It's funny you argue so deeply about nitpicking when you've made post after post about absolutely pedantic stuff here. Adjustments could have been made to the Eglinton to have it run more like the Yamanote or any other above ground rail with street crossings that runs with any level of efficiency. Priority has been given to cars, period. All decisions were made with cars in mind instead of people. Making it a subway would have made absolutely zero difference if cars were not given a veto over moving people quickly.

Nitpicking my edit doesn't take away from your demonstrably misleading claim.

Last Railway Crossing on Yamanote Line in Tokyo to be Removed

<p>The only remaining railroad crossing on the JR Yamanote Line in Tokyo will be removed as the Tokyo metropolitan government decided to build a new stretch of road near the crossing in Kita Ward and construct an overpass over the tracks.</p>

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

Did the Yamanote run noticeably worse when it did have more street level crossings? Does the weight class difference fire up the pedantry that hard in you that you feel the need to respond? Or should I expect more DMs where you attempt to force an argument down my throat?

 

[robmausser]

There was talk here that Metrolinx ran these trains faster on the above ground portions than once the TTC took the keys. Did anyone ever make a video or have videos showing this as pure evidence? I want to get this information to Josh Matlow.

Thanks

 

[JSF-1]

If were going to compare to Japan in the case of LRT would the Utsunomiya LRT which opened in 2024 not be a better example? Just some quick facts about it... it is 14.6km with 19 stops and end to end travel time is 44 minutes (46 on holiday schedules). It also has express service which blew my mind but that's probably not a fair comparison given the Toronto doesn't have a history of any express rail service outside of the GO network. Ultimately the line has been a success and has even generated 20% more ridership then was forecast with the city already having a 5km extension in the works. It's the first new Light-Rail line in Japan in like 60 years and given its success it won't be the last as Japan is also dealing with rising subway construction costs. It's actually probably worse in real terms given the state of the Yen and the overall decline of the economy, so cheaper transit solutions are becoming more appealing. I know Naha in Okinawa has a proposal for 3 new LRT lines but that project is still years away from materializing.

There was talk here that Metrolinx ran these trains faster on the above ground portions than once the TTC took the keys. Did anyone ever make a video or have videos showing this as pure evidence? I want to get this information to Josh Matlow.

Thanks

Well I know it was true on Finch so I would assume its possible on Eglinton as well; that said I don't have any video of it but there must be some from the plethora of youtube videos made about the line before it opened.

 

[Frankietls]

This was a great read, and seeing how quick the train moves in the tunnel was a relief. I'll also say I think the stations look really fantastic.

Giving my selfish use case here. I live at Chaplin, and most of the time all I need is to get to Cedarvale or Eglinton Station. On Line 5, that is only 2 stops. It should be a very fast underground trip (5-6 minutes maybe). Comparing to the current 32 bus going in either direction, it will be a game changer. A lot of folks in this thread talk about the bus being faster, and maybe that is true in Scarborough, but it is absolutely not the case in midtown. There is so much backed up traffic around Allen, Avenue, and turning into the bus terminal at Yonge, that it can take 15 minutes to move a couple blocks. Buses are ALWAYS late, so you are stuck waiting in the cold with no idea when it will come. And when/ if you do get on, you are crammed in like sardines.

This train will change my life. I'm sorry for all the people who are disappointed in the above ground east arm of this line, but as someone who lives in between both sides of line 1, this will be an enormous improvement. TTC, please open this line.

I used to work at Don Mills and Eglinton, and to go home it's either taking the 25/925 bus down to Pape station or 34 bus west to Eglinton station. I've always taken the 25 even though the route is longer with more turns. In some odd occasions when I decided to roll the dice with the 34 I instantly regreted it, even after the construction is no longer there at Y&E.
I have absolutely no doubt this line will be an instant hit for people along Eglinton.

 

[urbanclient]

There was talk here that Metrolinx ran these trains faster on the above ground portions than once the TTC took the keys. Did anyone ever make a video or have videos showing this as pure evidence? I want to get this information to Josh Matlow.

IMO this is a myth bc of what the TTC said in the Dec 10 board meeting and the slow speeds observed by trainspotters for years @robmausser :

Myers: what were the reasons given?

TTC: because the original estimate for the run time for Line 5 and 6 was lower than what was actually possible to do

Myers: so where did the 36 minutes for Finch West number come from?

TTC: that was developed by Metrolinx in consultation with city and TTC... was part of the original contract

Myers: and when did it become apparent that that time frame was no longer possible?

TTC: became evident during discussions between TTC metrolinx and mosaic

Myers: what's the date approximately?

TTC: it would've been last year or possibly earlier.

Myers: was there ever a discussion about updating the public?

TTC: no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Xz9HS6ank

 

[pleaseLRT]

I used to work at Don Mills and Eglinton, and to go home it's either taking the 25/925 bus down to Pape station or 34 bus west to Eglinton station. I've always taken the 25 even though the route is longer with more turns. In some odd occasions when I decided to roll the dice with the 34 I instantly regreted it, even after the construction is no longer there at Y&E.
I have absolutely no doubt this line will be an instant hit for people along Eglinton.

The traffic at Leslie and Eglinton kills the 34's commute time. This Line will instantly make that stretch of the commute better, TSP or not.

If Laird station is the stopping point instead of Don Valley station (which it seems to be, as all the extra operations seem to be at Laird), then east enders get double screwed - no new Line; buses still stuck in traffic at Leslie.

 

[nfitz]

Great, so a simple trip from Mount pleasant station to the future flemington Park stn on the ol will involve me getting on ect at Mount pleasant, getting off at laird to catch a bus, taking that to Don valley stn, and then waiting for the ontario line again

Given the closest station to Flemington park is Lawrence West, that might not be the biggest problem!

It's interesting that the switches into the yard are such a big problem; which suggests that the theories here that the stop spacing and TSP are the big problems, may not be true.

 

[hawc]

Posted this on Reddit yesterday, the same time as I posted it here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1qphqpd/behold_the_incredible_speed_of_the_line_5_lrt

Got quite a bit of attention. It was the #1 post in r/Toronto, with 278,000 views and 300 wacky comments.

 

[ShonTron]

Ok, time to prune this thread too.

Keep it civil.

 

[hw621]

Olivia Chow just walked back from the Feb. 8 date, it seems...

 

[Thaboss]

Posted this on Reddit yesterday, the same time as I posted it here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1qphqpd/behold_the_incredible_speed_of_the_line_5_lrt

Got quite a bit of attention. It was the #1 post in r/Toronto, with 278,000 views and 300 wacky comments.

Dw, it was already posted here yesterday.

Wish we knew how fast the car and trains were moving because for all i know the cars are speeding like they typically do in toronto.

Olivia Chow just walked back from the Feb. 8 date, it seems...

No suprise here.

It feels like an official annoucment would've been made by now otherwise. Hopfully I'm wrong

 

[nfitz]

Wish we knew how fast the car and trains were moving because for all i know the cars are speeding like they typically do in toronto.

Good point - I didn't fully realize how fast cars had to speed to undertake a TTC Flexity at a stop until I tried to do it myself, uphill, without breaking the speed limit, and waiting until the no passing lights stopped! I didn't even get even with the front of the streetcar!