[T3G]

Great, now do the 45 during midday, or the 37.

37: 25 minutes during midday
45: 16 minutes during midday

What about on weekends? The 45 has a decent frequency on weekends, but each branch of the 37 runs every 17 minutes on Saturday afternoons. And those were but two examples that I gave off the top of my head, there are other routes which are just as bad. Each branch of the 40 runs every 24 minutes midday. The 42 runs every 16. The 46 is every 19 minutes. The outer branches of the 47 north of St. Clair are every 18 minutes. The 51 is every 22 minutes. 18 minutes on the 57.

My point is, this isn't about weather, and I have no idea what your angle is in bringing it up. Do you really think that people with access to a car would wait for these terrible quality services if the weather was more agreeable? Or are you going to tell me that you wouldn't wait for a bus that runs every 5 minutes when it's 30 degrees out? Come on.

 

[turbanplanner]

Great, now do the 45 during midday, or the 37.

37: 25 minutes during midday
45: 16 minutes during midday

What about on weekends? The 45 has a decent frequency on weekends, but each branch of the 37 runs every 17 minutes on Saturday afternoons. And those were but two examples that I gave off the top of my head, there are other routes which are just as bad. Each branch of the 40 runs every 24 minutes midday. The 42 runs every 16. The 46 is every 19 minutes. The outer branches of the 47 north of St. Clair are every 18 minutes. The 51 is every 22 minutes. 18 minutes on the 57.

My point is, this isn't about weather, and I have no idea what your angle is in bringing it up. Do you really think that people with access to a car would wait for these terrible quality services if the weather was more agreeable? Or are you going to tell me that you wouldn't wait for a bus that runs every 5 minutes when it's 30 degrees out? Come on.

You mentioned evening rush, you're moving goalposts at this point. The 45 has really good mid day service too.

You're saying what can we do to attract more riders? The weather is a big factor for me as an able bodied/healthy person. For people who don't fall into that boat the point is going to hit a lot harder. Some routes wouldn't get more ridership even with increased frequency. Also considering things like bunching etc

 

[Northern Light]

Lets resurrect this thread..........

More robust TSP is being piloted on Spadina. The details may be announced later today, but are public now.

To date, 2 intersections have been modified, and will be activated imminently.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

But what about the TTC’s antiquated Streetcars Operators Handbook/Policy of:

“Stop-and-proceed all special trackwork,” no passing other cars on intersections with special trackwork, 10km/h Speed Restriction on all special track, and speed restriction in all intersecting roads?

This culture and operations policies need to change in conjunction with TSP otherwise it’s just a waste of time and money and relegating TSP useless. Plus there’s also the elephant in the room being Toronto Transportation that resists all changes that might impede automobile flow. Toronto Transportation is run on a conservative automobile first ideology, majority if not all those engineers are trained as highway engineers or come from MTO.

 

[Northern Light]

But what about the TTC’s antiquated Streetcars Operators Handbook/Policy of:

“Stop-and-proceed all special trackwork,” no passing other cars on intersections with special trackwork, 10km/h Speed Restriction on all special track, and speed restriction in all intersecting roads?

This culture and operations policies need to change in conjunction with TSP otherwise it’s just a waste of time and money and relegating TSP useless. Plus there’s also the elephant in the room being Toronto Transportation that resists all changes that might impede automobile flow. Toronto Transportation is run on a conservative automobile first ideology, majority if not all those engineers are trained as highway engineers or come from MTO.

I'm one of many working on these issues, you'll see much of what you just raised above in Jonathan English;' presentation to TTC today.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2026/ttc/bgrd/backgroundfile-284274.pdf

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

But what about the TTC’s antiquated Streetcars Operators Handbook/Policy of:

“Stop-and-proceed all special trackwork,” no passing other cars on intersections with special trackwork, 10km/h Speed Restriction on all special track, and speed restriction in all intersecting roads?

This culture and operations policies need to change in conjunction with TSP otherwise it’s just a waste of time and money and relegating TSP useless. Plus there’s also the elephant in the room being Toronto Transportation that resists all changes that might impede automobile flow. Toronto Transportation is run on a conservative automobile first ideology, majority if not all those engineers are trained as highway engineers or come from MTO.

 

[jmi22]

The funny thing is in the Toronto context a great deal of these Transportation Services and MTO workers likely do take transit everyday, just the GO train, but never surface routes.

 

[turbanplanner]

The funny thing is in the Toronto context a great deal of these Transportation Services and MTO workers likely do take transit everyday, just the GO train, but never surface routes.

If anybody thinks transportation services are pro car, they can’t even get the damn one lane roads to have traffic lights and sync like every other civilized city!

It’s crazy driving on Adelaide or Richmond will just lead to a bunch of red lights!

 

[generalcanada]

If anybody thinks transportation services are pro car, they can’t even get the damn one lane roads to have traffic lights and sync like every other civilized city!

It’s crazy driving on Adelaide or Richmond will just lead to a bunch of red lights!

hmm i wonder why you are hitting red lights....

 

[Northern Light]

The info is now circulating widely enough......

Three intersections on Spadina will be piloted with more assertive TSP:

College, Dundas and King.

The first 2 are pretty much ready to go with King in the next short while.

 

[reaperexpress]

This culture and operations policies need to change in conjunction with TSP otherwise it’s just a waste of time and money and relegating TSP useless.

"We haven't yet fixed one of the issues, so we shouldn't fix any issues."

What kind of masochistic logic is this?! Improving TSP saves time regardless of whether you also change the speed limits. Those are two different things. We can fix the TSP right now, whereas replacing track switches will take years.

Plus there’s also the elephant in the room being Toronto Transportation that resists all changes that might impede automobile flow. Toronto Transportation is run on a conservative automobile first ideology, majority if not all those engineers are trained as highway engineers or come from MTO.

And yet Transportation Services is the one who is implementing the TSP improvements... Not to mention all the other transit priority projects like the bus/streetcar lanes on Bathurst, the King Pilot etc... Maybe we shouldn't just give up on transit just because there are a few bad apples in a massive government bureaucracy?

And where did you get your statistic that the majority of Transportation Services engineers are trained as "highway" engineers? I know a lot of them, and very few have an MTO background.

Or do you mean that all traffic engineers are highway engineers? In which case yes, obviously the traffic engineers are trained in traffic engineering. So am I for that matter.

 

[daptive]

The info is now circulating widely enough......

Three intersections on Spadina will be piloted with more assertive TSP:

College, Dundas and King.

The first 2 are pretty much ready to go with King in the next short while.

Will be anxiously waiting for the first driver who is so used to the original signal timing they turn straight into a streetcar!

 

[Northern Light]

Will be anxiously waiting for the first driver who is so used to the original signal timing they turn straight into a streetcar!

Hopefully not.....though at least we have spares?

 

[daptive]

Hopefully not.....though at least we have spares?

Have the circulating info contained any details on the signal phasing and the requirements for TSP to trigger? Would also be nice to know the KPIs and testing methodologies

 

[Mihairokov]

It’s crazy driving on Adelaide or Richmond will just lead to a bunch of red lights!

That's good. Consecutive green lights encourages drivers to drive far too quickly than they should be able to. If Sherbourne/George/Jarvis on Richmond are all Green drivers are guaranteed to be driving far, far too quickly.

I encourage anyone who disagrees to stand on the SE corner of Adelaide/Jarvis or Adelaide/George and tell me that you feel safe as cars whizz by mere feet away.