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wager

scarberiankhatru said:
Well, some are arguing that 1 Bloor East doesn't have any "real" hope of actually getting built, so maybe not...
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well if that's the case then maybe a wager should be made, either 1 on 1 or in collective groups (the old "put up or shut up"). I'll wager that it gets built and based upon the certainty of some others that it won't maybe I should get odds.
 
I don't know why people keep comparing Bazis to Stinson. Bazis has a lot of experience with huge developments in Europe and Asia, deep pockets, slick marketing (just look at that website!), and they've sold a tonne of units. Stinson has developed a total of one significant building, with a partner who will never work with him again, and everything he's done reeks of amateurism. Now that he's been all but run out of town he's got his sights set on Hamilton... and going by posts on SSP they have no idea what they're getting into.

asiancolossus said:
All the above points are valid regarding foreigners and international contributions to the infrastructure of Toronto.

Which makes me very surprised about the backlash Bazis has gotten from some members of the board simply because they are Kazakh and are trying to establish a reputation in Toronto. They might not be the "safe" choice, like Tridel and Canderel Stoneridge, but they are being bold and dynamic and the buildings they have built in Europe are stunning and if given the chance, they will develop something truly transformative in the downtown core.

Yes, their sales tactics are questionable. But that is another story.
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Interesting that of the two really big residential towers proposed right now it's the "safe" choice, Canderel Stoneridge, that has the tower with bolder (not necessarily better) architecture. Bazis have clearly taken architectural cues from local Clewes style modernism.
 
MisterF said:
I don't know why people keep comparing Bazis to Stinson. Bazis has a lot of experience with huge developments in Europe and Asia, deep pockets, slick marketing (just look at that website!), and they've sold a tonne of units.
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There's something a little off about their main website and their outlandish proclamations. If they are in fact the real estate development behemoth that they espouse to be why would TORONTO be front and centre on their corporate homepage? And if this isn't their parent company webpage, where is it? Browsing through the site one gets the sense that perhaps the individuals behind 1BE are not necessary the ones who behind some of those buildings. Honestly, it's as if they just cut & pasted some random buildings in Kazakhstan and claimed to have built them! Where's the PR in their home country? Where's the media? Where's the credibility? It all appears to be focused on our little neck of the woods. It's the dubious nature of their bravado that strikes a cord with my personally.

Am I completely alone (certainly fine if true) or does anyone else share my point of view?
 
investor said:
There's something a little off about their main website and their outlandish proclamations. If they are in fact the real estate development behemoth that they espouse to be why would TORONTO be front and centre on their corporate homepage? And if this isn't their parent company webpage, where is it? Browsing through the site one gets the sense that perhaps the individuals behind 1BE are not necessary the ones who behind some of those buildings. Honestly, it's as if they just cut & pasted some random buildings in Kazakhstan and claimed to have built them! Where's the PR in their home country? Where's the media? Where's the credibility? It all appears to be focused on our little neck of the woods. It's the dubious nature of their bravado that strikes a cord with my personally.

Am I completely alone (certainly fine if true) or does anyone else share my point of view?
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I understand a certain degree of skepticism, and it is certainly within your right, but now it seems that no amount of reassurance can dissuade your pessimism at this point. To actually claim that they put false buildings on their site as just a "feeling" on your part??? Isn't that called paranoia? There is a world out there outside of Toronto, and I'd hardly call Europe and the Middle East the middle of nowhere. If you REALLY wanted to, investor, there will be ways of you finding out whether these building were really built by them, how much "proof" will it take? I doubt that even if and when the building gets built in 4 years you'll be satisfied. I still do not see the degree of animosity here. And their building is on a similar level to the other developments going on downtown right now in terms of the appearance. What you are exhibiting goes way way way beyond skepticism.
 
asiancolossus said:
I understand a certain degree of skepticism, and it is certainly within your right, but now it seems that no amount of reassurance can dissuade your pessimism at this point. To actually claim that they put false buildings on their site as just a "feeling" on your part??? Isn't that called paranoia? There is a world out there outside of Toronto, and I'd hardly call Europe and the Middle East the middle of nowhere. If you REALLY wanted to, investor, there will be ways of you finding out whether these building were really built by them, how much "proof" will it take? I doubt that even if and when the building gets built in 4 years you'll be satisfied. I still do not see the degree of animosity here. And their building is on a similar level to the other developments going on downtown right now in terms of the appearance. What you are exhibiting goes way way way beyond skepticism.
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That's a fair comment. Again, these are merely my observations. I never suggested that this project won't move ahead, I just have concerns that it will get completed in a timely fashion, on budget. I have no vested interest either way. As a Torontonian I would have preferred to see something different at this location. Ultimately there isn't nearly enough real demand for a project such as this at this location so I suppose I'm disappointed that this important corner will end of up being a bit of a ghost ship in a sense. To be fair, that's probably better than the sketchy Harvey's that's there now, but not as exciting as what *could* go there given a development with a proper understanding of the local market dynamics. In time I suspect that Yonge & Eglinton will become more of a focus point for Toronto due to the proper integration of new residential developments into the fabric of the community.

I'm sure many forumers share my opinion in that regard.
 
investor said:
That's a fair comment. Again, these are merely my observations. I never suggested that this project won't move ahead, I just have concerns that it will get completed in a timely fashion, on budget. I have no vested interest either way. As a Torontonian I would have preferred to see something different at this location. Ultimately there isn't nearly enough real demand for a project such as this at this location so I suppose I'm disappointed that this important corner will end of up being a bit of a ghost ship in a sense. To be fair, that's probably better than the sketchy Harvey's that's there now, but not as exciting as what *could* go there given a development with a proper understanding of the local market dynamics. In time I suspect that Yonge & Eglinton will become more of a focus point for Toronto due to the proper integration of new residential developments into the fabric of the community.

I'm sure many forumers share my opinion in that regard.
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Well investor, again, time will tell whether there is enough demand in this project or whether a large number of speculators are driving the price enough and then selling at a massive profit. I'd say based on what the pre pre pre sales and forward have been going as evidenced by several posters last week stating that they are basically 80% plus sold with only a handful of units, I'd say there is plenty of demand for this property. Even if just speculative. As contrast to many other units like the one like Couture at Bloor and Jarvis (check out their thread on here) that has had approval since 2003 or something like that and doesn't even have 70% sales to this day. I agree with your argument regarding the comparison between 1 Bloor and Yorkville proper, but disagree with your assessment for "real lack of demand". All the hard proof so far speaks otherwise. Whether 80% of these are speculator waiting to push the button to sell, well that's another story.
 
asiancolossus said:
Well investor, again, time will tell whether there is enough demand in this project or whether a large number of speculators are driving the price enough and then selling at a massive profit. I'd say based on what the pre pre pre sales and forward have been going as evidenced by several posters last week stating that they are basically 80% plus sold with only a handful of units, I'd say there is plenty of demand for this property. Even if just speculative. As contrast to many other units like the one like Couture at Bloor and Jarvis (check out their thread on here) that has had approval since 2003 or something like that and doesn't even have 70% sales to this day. I agree with your argument regarding the comparison between 1 Bloor and Yorkville proper, but disagree with your assessment for "real lack of demand". All the hard proof so far speaks otherwise. Whether 80% of these are speculator waiting to push the button to sell, well that's another story.
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Look at Miami for the devastation that occurs following an offshore speculative buying frenzy.

Toronto 2007=Miami circa 2005 to the power of 4
 
These developers and Stinson aren't comparable at all...it isn't even close.
 
urbandreamer said:
^But Toronto is the "centre of the universe." Nothing will stop the condo boom--it will go up and up and up just like RIMM!!!!!!!!;)
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Sounds like someone just watched "Let's All Hate Toronto"...
 
investor said:
Look at Miami for the devastation that occurs following an offshore speculative buying frenzy.

Toronto 2007=Miami circa 2005 to the power of 4
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How can you possibly compare the two? Canadian mortgage system does not equal American subprime. The reason for Miami has a lot to do with banks and independent mortgage businesses lending money to people that had no right buying homes/condos. IF the market crashes in Toronto it will not only affect 1 Bloor but the entire market, so you better go on the other luxury condo boards and give your premonitions of doom and gloom and not just on here. And of course you are now changing the topic. You said there was very little demand for this project in one post, now when confronted you are saying there is too much demand a la Miami. You blame Bazis for making up buildings on their webpage. C'mon. You are starting to sound desperate. And from the way you attack other posters on the board, I am starting to believe that you are the alias of another poster named vultur. There is no reasoning with you it seems. I like to think I have tempered optimism for this project, but you sound like you have unreasonable pessimism here. You have the right to your opinions, investor, but I will no longer respond to a moving target that is not even consistent in his postings. Good luck.
 
For 2 or so years....at least 100 "real" estate experts (and twice as many internet experts) pronounced this Pemberton Uptown thing... dead, dead, dead... but apparently they have the money to dig a decent grave to bury the project.

Otherwise, they may be building a building. Oh oh.
 
3D, the project had a number of problems and nearly did suffer an unfortunate fate. Pemberton dropped Baker and replaced them with Milborne Reality, the project was rebranded with many changes made to both the marketing, the interiors and some of the pricing. Market conditions have also improved the last year which helped push sales.
 
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