[TOareaFan]

Hmmmm,... by any chance did you use to work at Lehman Brothers?

But seriously,... you seem to have some financial knowledge,.... so let me ask you,... who or what kind of financial institution would be willing to loan Bazis $542 million now for construction cost,.... especially for construction on land that might be taken away in receivership in a month or so

Does Bazis canadian operation have any real tangible assets that can back up any serious loan? At least a Canadian developer would have some serious assets here in Canada and a long reputation,... unlike Bazis from where-ever that nobody ever heard of,... You deal with a fly by night operation,... well, you know ,.... what a mess.?

Bazis biggest problem (as I see it from the outside...ie. I am not involved in this deal so this is pure idle industry speculation) is that they were never able to convince a lender in the first place that they could pull this off. As I mentioned earlier, the opportunity to finance this project has been out there for a while....either they couldn't find a lender to do it or they were too tough in their negotiations....when the financing for this deal would have been "on the street" lenders were agressively fighting for large profile deals....so why did this not find a home?

As I also said earlier, if you could find a construction loan, the threat of "land that might be taken away in receivership" would be gone....the first draw on the construction loan would either see the land loan paid out (typical) or the land loan lender (say that 5 times fast and drunk ) would postpone to the senior construction lender and, usually in cases like that, sign a postponement and standstill agreement....so that is not the issue.

Frankly, I don't think the lender that could do this loan, on this project, to this borrower (just based on their experiences to date) in these market conditions exists....but (and this is all that I was trying to point out earlier) I don't think it is at all related to the default on the $46 million land loan....that is a fairly recent event and prior to that event (in a much healthier market with a lot less bad press) they had not been able to arrange their financing....the default (if there is one...at this point it is just an allegation by the lender) was an after-the-fact side issue (IMO).

 

[johnwood]

That what you get for trusting a 3rd world country!!!!!

 

[DaninToronto]

Perhaps this will get approved soon:

http://www.680news.com/news/headlines/more.jsp?content=20090721_145525_5132


Mayor Miller announces partial resumption of building permit processing
Shauna Hunt and 680News staff Toronto | Tuesday, July 21st, 2009 4:22 pm
Bookmark

Toronto - Tuesday marked day 30 of the civic workers strike and with it, Mayor David Miller took steps to ease the backlog in applying for building permits.

Mayor Miller announced Thursday afternoon that there will be a partial resumption of the permit granting process.

This comes as welcome news for the construction industry.

Steven Dupuee, with the Greater Toronto Home Builders Association told 680News that the on-going strike could create major delays.

Dupree called the Mayor's move gutsy but said that jobs are still on the line due to construction being a major industry in Toronto.

Mayor Miller announced, Tuesday, that the city was working to issue construction permits for applications submitted before June 22.

The Mayor said that since Monday, Toronto Building has identified several hundred permit applications that can be processed almost immediately.

He added that the city wants to grant continuing to support residents and business by providing as many services as possible during the strike.

As many as 500 permits can be issued by the city due to reassigned workers.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Bazis biggest problem (as I see it from the outside...ie. I am not involved in this deal so this is pure idle industry speculation) is that they were never able to convince a lender in the first place that they could pull this off. As I mentioned earlier, the opportunity to finance this project has been out there for a while....either they couldn't find a lender to do it or they were too tough in their negotiations....when the financing for this deal would have been "on the street" lenders were agressively fighting for large profile deals....so why did this not find a home?

As I also said earlier, if you could find a construction loan, the threat of "land that might be taken away in receivership" would be gone....the first draw on the construction loan would either see the land loan paid out (typical) or the land loan lender (say that 5 times fast and drunk ) would postpone to the senior construction lender and, usually in cases like that, sign a postponement and standstill agreement....so that is not the issue.

Frankly, I don't think the lender that could do this loan, on this project, to this borrower (just based on their experiences to date) in these market conditions exists....but (and this is all that I was trying to point out earlier) I don't think it is at all related to the default on the $46 million land loan....that is a fairly recent event and prior to that event (in a much healthier market with a lot less bad press) they had not been able to arrange their financing....the default (if there is one...at this point it is just an allegation by the lender) was an after-the-fact side issue (IMO).

The problem I see with Bazis is that they were promising way more than they could deliver. I mean, Bazis was promising the sky,... literally!

Bazis started marketing and selling condos that they didn't even have building permits for, condos that went against city zoning regulations,... surely anyone buying into this should have realize this project would be in for a very rough ride.

Even if, Bazis were to miraculously get financing for construction of 1 Bloor Street East,... there's a whole bunch of buyers who just want to sell and get out as soon as they can,... meaning all the other condo units at 1 Bloor Street East will tank in value as soon as everyone starts selling. Also, what will happen to the level of quality,... a developer hard up for cash will be more tempted to cut corners,...

If you look around the city at some of the other mega residential towers that were marketed and sold around the same time Bazis 1 Bloor Street East was,... hey guess what, they're being built! Those developers have the resources and reputation to get things done,.... I guess this really separates the men and mice,... (I would have said rats, but with a 30 day garbage strike, there's already too many rats running around in Toronto,... and we don't need anymore! )

As many here knows, Bazis also has two other projects, CrystalBlu which is currently under construction and Emerald Park which is still being marketed,.... how will Bazis financial problems at 1 Bloor Street East affect these two other Bazis projects,... surely sales will take a hit and so will Bazis credit rating and what's left of Bazis reputation,...

 

[Redroom Studios]

sunny, please... clearly you are someone with an axe to grind and are anti-progress in general. Your arguments are full of hyperbole and very little rational thought. All you are doing is fanning the flames rather than taking a thoughtful look at the facts as TOareafan has done. I tend to agree with his assesment of the situation. This project is very much on the fence right now... it only takes one or two things to go in Bazis favour right now and this thing is back on track. As I mentioned a few pages back, I was very much negative in the beginning about the approach they took pumping up the marketing hype and rushing this project along. BUt now it appears that market forces and local developers have aligned against Bazis and suddenly in my eyes they are the underdog. And I love to cheer for the underdog. Yesterdays court ruling came as no surprise to me... Bazis may still have a few cards to play...

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

sunny, please... clearly you are someone with an axe to grind and are anti-progress in general. Your arguments are full of hyperbole and very little rational thought. All you are doing is fanning the flames rather than taking a thoughtful look at the facts as TOareafan has done. I tend to agree with his assesment of the situation. This project is very much on the fence right now... it only takes one or two things to go in Bazis favour right now and this thing is back on track. As I mentioned a few pages back, I was very much negative in the beginning about the approach they took pumping up the marketing hype and rushing this project along. BUt now it appears that market forces and local developers have aligned against Bazis and suddenly in my eyes they are the underdog. And I love to cheer for the underdog. Yesterdays court ruling came as no surprise to me... Bazis may still have a few cards to play...

Problem is their financials were built of a house of cards,....

 

[vultur09]

What we know is Bazis has about $70 million in purchasers' deposits is being held in trust,.... belonging to purchasers,... many of whom seems to be looking to get their money back and get out of the deal with Bazis. For most of them, their money have already been tied up since late 2007,.... for how many more years their money will be tied up,... is anybody's guess now.

You are looking at this all wrong my friend. Bazis has done these people a great service for which they should be eternally grateful. I challenge you to find an investment that returned as much since late 2007 as a lawyer's (interest bearing?) trust account! The TSX is down about 35% since then. Instead of squandering their sizable deposits on the stock market, another get rich quick scam or some other ridiculously speculative pre-sale condo play that is currently under construction and very likely worth less than their purchase price, ($1500 per square foot Four Seasons units anyone?) these morons are going to get all their money back and maybe even 1% or 2% in interest! On the contrary, this is the best thing that could have happened to these greedy nitwits!

 

[MisterF]

Bazis started marketing and selling condos that they didn't even have building permits for, condos that went against city zoning regulations,... surely anyone buying into this should have realize this project would be in for a very rough ride.

Every developer does this.

 

[kennyx]

Anything that removes a Harvey's and replaces it with a compromised version of an already architecturally dubious tower is a really bad thing.

Was peeved off for a while too, -but we've got Craft burger up the road now!

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

You are looking at this all wrong my friend. Bazis has done these people a great service for which they should be eternally grateful. I challenge you to find an investment that returned as much since late 2007 as a lawyer's (interest bearing?) trust account! The TSX is down about 35% since then. Instead of squandering their sizable deposits on the stock market, another get rich quick scam or some other ridiculously speculative pre-sale condo play that is currently under construction and very likely worth less than their purchase price, ($1500 per square foot Four Seasons units anyone?) these morons are going to get all their money back and maybe even 1% or 2% in interest! On the contrary, this is the best thing that could have happened to these greedy nitwits!

Yes, I do agree with you to a point,... but the question now is one of liquidity. Not being able to access one's money (or one's borrowed money) during a recession when some of these buyers have lost jobs or sources of income,... and not being able to participate in better investments now because their money is tied up in a Bazis condo project that may never happen.

 

[adma]

Anything that removes a Harvey's and replaces it with an empty lot is a really bad thing.

Anything that removes a Harvey's and replaces it with a compromised version of an already architecturally dubious tower is a really bad thing.

Because Harvey's makes your hamburger a beautiful thing.

 

[adma]

Well, of course no one wants a gravel lot, including myself, but, well, here we are.

I didn't say Roy Square was devoid of value but I did say that it was "a painted over alley with cheap white lawn chairs". No matter how special it was to many people, Yonge and Bloor deserved better and still does. And yes aesthetics are most certainly of paramount importance here.

A "square" as a mews; a mews as a muse.

And as a "square", more valid than the present open space--which is my fundamental point in the end...

 

[unknown variable x]

Because Harvey's makes your hamburger a beautiful thing.

conspiracy theory 1: Harvey’s was removed to bring more traffic to McCondo..errumm McDonalds at Bloor and Avenue and their next project: Exhibit

Conspiracy theory 2: the delay/finance issues are all planned. Potash will make a rebound and Bazis will be able to finance the project on their own, thus making it profitable for them as a compnay. As the years pass and it finally gets built the average price per square foot will = $1800 making it profitable for those who bought as a speculator! At that time, the money made will be reinvested in Exhibit or their newest project at the former yonge and eglinton subway station... Ruby Red Potash tower

What, you want links? Evidence?

Clearly you misunderstand the purpose of the Internet.

I think i finally got the hang of it
ps great forum!! From unknown newbie x

 

[Redroom Studios]

ya, I was pondering about the conspiracy angle too... if it were true it'd rank right up there with the accomplishments of GW Bush and Dick Cheney over the past 8 years. Hmmm, anyone know where Cheney is these days???

 

[unknown variable x]

he's taken a job as Marketing Vice President for Bazis...anyone who can shoot an attorney in 3 different spots with 1 pellet (and still not be charged) is a valued asset.

It only makes sense to have him on board with Minto’s documents of mass destruction circulating