[Eug]

Re: That Star article: Condo buyers may have to line up again

A friend of mine was in the same situation. He put money into a pre-build and the developer went bankrupt. He got his money back, but not until years later.

Ironically, on the bright side (if there is any), those in 1 Bloor who locked up their deposits in 1 Bloor managed to keep that cash out of the crap stock market.

Then again, they missed the 50% rise in the market in recent months too.

 

[AKS]

Re: That Star article: Condo buyers may have to line up again

A friend of mine was in the same situation. He put money into a pre-build and the developer went bankrupt. He got his money back, but not until years later.

Ironically, on the bright side (if there is any), those in 1 Bloor who locked up their deposits in 1 Bloor managed to keep that cash out of the crap stock market.

Then again, they missed the 50% rise in the market in recent months too.

market wasn't that bad. bank stocks are risen almost doubled since March this year.

 

[Kenji]

Eug: How long did your friend have to wait to get the money back? Is there any regulation on the time frame of returning the deposit money?

 

[interchange42]

Posts speculating about the factors, mostly economic, that brought down the Bazis plan for 1 Bloor East, have been moved to a new thread here.

42

 

[vultur09]

.

Who wants to place a friendly cyber-wager that GG doesn't close on this site in September?

 

[Solaris]

if Great Gulf didn't come to the table with an offer initially I would've never guess they are the buyer of the One Bloor site ... but given they have presented an offer and made a substantial deposit (I assume non-refundable) together with the public announcements in media, I don't think GG will walk away from the deal when the deadline comes Sept 16/09 @ 5 pm

 

[DZ2007]

Eug: How long did your friend have to wait to get the money back? Is there any regulation on the time frame of returning the deposit money?

There's no regulation on these things ... in bankruptcy, things are settled when they're settled, after all assets have been sold off and a bankruptcy judge has decided which creditors get priority to get the first cash flows ... typically takes 2-3 years but that's just a rough approximation.

As assets are sold off gradually the distributions are made, if people can only get 60 cents on the dollar because that's all that's left ... that may be what happens.

 

[Automation Gallery]

There's no regulation on these things ... in bankruptcy, things are settled when they're settled, after all assets have been sold off and a bankruptcy judge has decided which creditors get priority to get the first cash flows ... typically takes 2-3 years but that's just a rough approximation.

Bankruptcy ...i dont think with bankruptcy you have many options, i though they sold the land and still made a profit.

 

[Redroom Studios]

thats right and deposits are held in a trust account, so they are separate from company assets in any case.

 

[maestro]

AG, I agree with you on this one. The condo-hotel concept is losing its luster, especially if you have no control of the hotel going in (besides this, Four-seasons is just up the street). Some nice AAA office above and retail space would be better.

The midtown office market has been performing well below average for as long as I can remember. No one is going to build a class AA office tower here even in the best of times and considering the direction the overall market is going, no is going to build any office space either.

Hotel brands mostly sell licensing to expand their portfolios. You can essentially have any brand of your choosing as long as you pony of the dough and meet their criteria.

 

[Logan]

Doesn't it seem like Toronto's most "important" intersections are cursed?
Metropolis was delayed nearly 10 years at Yonge & Dundas. Now our second most "important" intersection has a similar problem.

I just hope if there's going to be a serious delay in getting 1 Bloor off the ground that the city will require Great Gulf to do something with the land instead of just fencing. Put a temporary park or something. Hell, I'll even go down there and throw some Patch Perfect grass grower if it helps!

 

[Ramako]

Doesn't it seem like Toronto's most "important" intersections are cursed?
Metropolis was delayed nearly 10 years at Yonge & Dundas. Now our second most "important" intersection has a similar problem.

I just hope if there's going to be a serious delay in getting 1 Bloor off the ground that the city will require Great Gulf to do something with the land instead of just fencing. Put a temporary park or something. Hell, I'll even go down there and throw some Patch Perfect grass grower if it helps!

My fear is that if it is turned into a temporary park, local NIMBYs will get just a little too used to having a place to walk their dog and will raise a stink when GG tries to develop it. I'd prefer a parking lot.

 

[Nebakenezer]

The midtown office market has been performing well below average for as long as I can remember. No one is going to build a class AA office tower here even in the best of times and considering the direction the overall market is going, no is going to build any office space either.

Hotel brands mostly sell licensing to expand their portfolios. You can essentially have any brand of your choosing as long as you pony of the dough and meet their criteria.

I don't think condo-hotels are losing their luster at all just because one no name condo-hotel failed on bloor street. Look at Ritz Carlton, they have at least 20 more in the pipeline, look at four seasons, still another 20, then shangri-la, 20 more, trump, dozens more.. etc etc then theres the hilton residences in surfers paradise, armani residences and hotel in burj dubai, and so many more one offs as well.

In toronto alone we will have ritz, four season, shangri-la, trump, 1 king, soho metropoliton, pantages, Hazelton Hotel and Private Residences, Maple Leaf Towers will have Hotel Le Germaine in it.

Maybe for now things will slow down, but that's because of the overall market condition. Hotel residences are usually win win situation for the owner and the developer. Easier financing of luxury properties for the developer, and amenities of a hotel for residents.

 

[asiancolossus]

How to turn this PR nightmare around

This turn of events is amazing, and I suspect there is still plenty of drama in the months ahead.

Great Gulf has a good reputation but it will be interesting to see how they spin this new development when they take over in September. I do agree with the realtors who say that they should be giving old 1 Bloor East owners a first crack at the condos, I mean they took a risk and yes they took their chances, but GG has millions in trust that they have access to if they offered first crack to the old 1Bloor buyers. If they let these people go, I doubt that most of them would ever risk it and buy again, particularly as I suspect the condos will even be MORE expensive the second time around. Why not try to entice some of the old buyers and have a built in base already?

The reputation of that site has already been tarnished, even though it is not GG's fault of course. But it'll be very interesting to see if they can get the hype factor going again on this project and whether people are willing to do the lineup thing all over again.

Any opinions?

Do you think GG will announce their plans for the original buyers in September or drag it on for months and years? Can they legally do that? I'm sure everyone just wants their money back ASAP.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

The purchase & sale agreement would need to be read and possibly interpreted by a lawyer to determine whether the sale of a suite would be transferred to a different developer, if any such language even exists.
If GG (and possible partner(s)) plans, or manages to build 1BE to the same spec. then I think it would be in their best interest to offer current purchasers the same deal on the same suite that they purchased. Re-selling a big project like this from scratch (let's presume for a moment that it's a newly designed 50 storey condo) is a lot of units to move.
Re-designing the building, marketing costs, legal costs, permits, approvals etc. could in great part be saved if they went with the original 1BE plan, less a dozen or so floors.
Just my thoughts.