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investor said:
http://www.remaxcondosplus.com/blogging-for-condos.php

Looks like someone out there holds a very well reasoned contrarian view of this project. Finally a voice of reason in a crowd of rancid wolves!
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Thanks for the article! I do have a few issues with how they value the property at $625 a square foot max. First of all, where do these assigned numbers for premiums for new developments and locations come from? Have they actually done a wide ranging study about this? Secondly this formula should be applying to ALL new condo developments, not just 1 Bloor. How about Hazelton, Ritz Carlton and Trump tower, all of which are commanding 1200 to 1500 a square foot. I understand that speculation will be a risk but the blog poster is unfairly directing his comments at 1 Bloor purely because of the hype surrounding the lineup. I don't think that 1 Bloor is currently selling for that much but I am not in the field and don't know how much it is as of now. And from what I heard they only sold 100 units on that first day. I don't know where the poster gets the idea the entire building was sold out.

And as for attacking Toronto as a "non world class city"??? That is rude. We may not be as huge as New York City, but I would argue that Toronto is becoming world class in terms of business.

Yes it will be interesting to see how many cancel after the 10 day period.

As much as a contrarian view is warranted, I found his blog posting to be quite biased.
 
asiancolossus said:
Secondly this formula should be applying to ALL new condo developments, not just 1 Bloor. How about Hazelton, Ritz Carlton and Trump tower, all of which are commanding 1200 to 1500 a square foot.
Yes it will be interesting to see how many cancel after the 10 day period.

As much as a contrarian view is warranted, I found his blog posting to be quite biased.
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Asiancolossus, I don't believe this realtor is being biased. I believe he/she is being honest. The $650 per sq. foot figure represents an accurate barometer for what 'luxury' projects are selling for in Toronto today in the resale market. I personally don't believe that 1 Bloor East is an ideal location comparable to to the Four Seasons or to the Hazelton or 100 Yorkville. This is not Yorkville- this is Yonge & Bloor. While it is desirable for certain, it is a very solid, tangible step down from Yorkville in my opinion. Heading west, past Bay Street, the streetscape changes dramatically and I can understand premium pricing. Just not here.

I am not a realtor myself and don't have access to the records but I believe that Ritz and Trump sold on average for well under $1000 per sq. foot. However, I believe that the ultra-exclusive Hazelton project (it is only 18 condo units afterall) may have breached that elusive barrier.

Anyone in the crowd with accurate stats to aid in the discussion?
 
Hey investor, I 100% agree with you regarding the fact that this is NOT Yorkville. It also does not have the high caliber name associated with it. So two big downsides to this development.

Funny thing about valuation, it is so difficult to measure the true worth of a new condo development, its all about supply and demand. There is so much discrepancy about 1 Bloor, one article says they sold out almost all the units, another one says they only sold 100 units. One article says the price is 850 a square foot and another says it has doubled up to 1500 a square foot. I wonder when this is all going to shake out and we find out exact numbers?
 
I've heard around 350 sales. Although there have been quite a few people backing out of the purchase or sale agreements during the 10 day cooling off period - so it is still hard to get an accurate picture of the total volume of sales. Bazis has not made many friends among the broker community with their price increases occurring just prior to sales events - it may hurt them in the long-term for future Toronto projects.
 
Whether or not 1 Bloor East is in Yorkville is besides the point. It still close enough to warrent premium pricing. And the official Bloor Yorkville district terminates on the eastern boundary at Church Street. So "technically" it is in Yorkville.

I read a report that the most expensive home in Toronto was sold at the building for 25 Million Dollars.
 
caltrane74 said:
Whether or not 1 Bloor East is in Yorkville is besides the point. It still close enough to warrent premium pricing. And the official Bloor Yorkville district terminates on the eastern boundary at Church Street. So "technically" it is in Yorkville.

I read a report that the most expensive home in Toronto was sold at the building for 25 Million Dollars.
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Personally I'd be very suspicious of any such sale given the recent history of expensive condo sales in Toronto. I believe that Tony Compter reportedly paid over $10,000,000 for a suite recently, although I am not certain that this is yet a matter of public record. Hearing that the developer of the Trump-branded project purchased the penthouse is akin to learning that The Police bought 10,000 seats to their own concert- it is not demonstrative of demand or appeal for the product.

This building has the potential to be the equivalent of a Minto Midtown project once complete. If it were a middle/upper middle market mixed use complex I believe that it would genuinely be deemed a super success and would certainly add tremendously to the appeal of the neighborhood and its resurgence in recent years. Notwithstanding the boundaries eluded to above, no one in town considers this area to be true yorkville, nor should they. Give it a vibrant community (as described herein) and I believe the project and area will thrive and Toronto will benefit as a result.

However, if it ends up being a transient node of absentee-owners, occasional renters, furnished-suite rentals, the complex will surely take on another, less desirable, flavor altogether. We are not Vancouver, nor should we strive to be!
 
investor said:
. Notwithstanding the boundaries eluded to above, no one in town considers this area to be true yorkville, nor should they. Give it a vibrant community (as described herein) and I believe the project and area will thrive.
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Yes, but the intention of the developers is to bring in a 5 star hotel and luxury brand retailers to the area, then what people's notion of what Yorkville "is" may have to move one block east. And when the rich urbanites are willing to spend 500,000 dollars for a closet start moving in, I'm sure the level of sophiscation in the surrounding area will rise to accomodate the demand this will generate.

investor said:
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However, if it ends up being a transient node of absentee-owners, occasional renters, furnished-suite rentals, the complex will surely take on another, less desirable, flavor altogether
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If a suite in the building cost 500,000 dollars or 10 Million dollars...who do you think will be renting it?, do you think that will make the area less desirable?

investor said:
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Personally I'd be very suspicious of any such sale given the recent history of expensive condo sales in Toronto. I believe that Tony Compter reportedly paid over $10,000,000 for a suite recently, although I am not certain that this is yet a matter of public record. Hearing that the developer of the Trump-branded project purchased the penthouse is akin to learning that The Police bought 10,000 seats to their own concert- it is not demonstrative of demand or appeal for the product.
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$25,000,000 dollars in a building that a week and a half ago advertised a suite with a top price of $8,000,000 dollars.
 
caltrane74 said:
$25,000,000 dollars in a building that a week and a half ago advertised a suite with a top price of $8,000,000 dollars.
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Yes, brotha, I share your sentiments. Moderate growth is the key to success imo. Look at the nice and steady pace of development in the GTA since 1996. Even a casual observer can note the increased human presence on the urban landscape as real end users populate our city and help it bloom into a thriving metropolis.

This project looks like it will be a victim of its own marketing slickness- speculative buyers will back out when they realize that it's a make-believe world endemic to places like Dubai, not the calm and cool vibe that permeates this part of the world.
 
investor said:
Finally a voice of reason in a crowd of rancid wolves!
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Wolves go rancid? Wolves are an outdoors kinda thing, and with the current chiily temperatures, I would think I wolves should stay rather fresh.

42
 
Bazis has not made many friends among the broker community with their price increases occurring just prior to sales events - it may hurt them in the long-term for future Toronto projects.
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Couldn't agree more..I had posted something along these lines after the price increases were announced, and a couple of people had said that they didn't feel 'sorry' for the agents....well, it's not a matter of feeling sorry, it's a matter of professional courtesy...you don't f*** with the hand that feeds you, especially when some of them have paid a fair amount of their own money to have people stand in line....there are certain unwritten rules in any industry, and Bazis broke one here.

Nevertheless, if they have sold anywhere near 350 units, especially considering that some of the higher priced units are sold, this one is definitely getting built (subject to city approval, of course)..don't forget, they still have to do their general release to the public, that should be any day now..
 
Forgot to post this version of "scale" a few days back... which sort of addresses requests to see 1BE and Crystal Meth/Uptown... all are elevations from the city so very accurate.

3towers.jpg
 
Wow! sorta takes your breath away....1 Bloor E is truly a monster....:)
 
Th Uptown, and especially Bazis' own Cruptal Blown, now look like puny little midgets.

Haw haaaaw.

42 (feeling a little Mother Skinnerish)
 
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