[afransen]

Deserved by your cursory understanding of the situation? You're are a joke.

"You blow your own horn a little too hard, not having even achieved an undergraduate degree."

You make it sound like I'm a dropout. I'll be graduating in April, thanks. Since when is being an undergrad student something to be embarrassed of?

"Thousands of hours? Uh huh."

I've taken about 30 math courses in various fields of mathematics, which at a minimum 3 hours a week means I've sat through about a thousand hours of lecture on mathematical topics alone, never mind time spent studying, working on assignments etc. I'm proud of my abilities, and I'm not embarrassed in the least that I'm presently pursuing a degree, as you suggest I should be. You can try to denigrate that if you will, but that only makes you a troll.

This is becoming awfully personal, wouldn't you say? Why are you resorting to personal attacks on me? I thought we were talking about ideas.

"As for your draft policies, they'll apply to someone else, not to you. That's convenient."

So, I ought to go back in time and change policies before I was in a position to do so? Again, this is remarkably foolish.

I'm surprised you're making such a large deal out of my position, since it is hardly a major source of pride for me. I didn't run for the ego boost of the election, I ran to help provide services for students. While I wish more people took an active interest, I'm realistic that it's the kind of services people ignore until it's not there. And given the stakes in mid-level student politics, I'm not surprised that turnout is poor. I mean, look at how many people vote in municipal politics, when thousands of their tax dollars are at stake. So, in summation, I think your attacking me on my volunteer activities (really, a fairly contrived attack since you went looking for 'dirt') is really more revealing of a mean-spirited streak on your part. Should I be flattered you thought I was important enough to google and dig through minutes?

 

[Hydrogen]

I never suggested that you should be embarrassed. You raised that up. Maybe you are. Who knows.

My points about your election are simply these: you had no moral qualms about taking an elected position as a result of a truly abysmal turn out. And you've also probably discovered that voting is not about the system of casting ballots, but about the actions and intentions of the people who choose to vote or not to vote for a whole range of possible reasons. Political life is not mathematical. It does not always satisfy feelings for what ought to be, and rarely lives up to theoretical expectations. That's it. Other than that, I think we've taken this exchange between us as far as it can go, wouldn't you agree?

Oh, and congratulations on the imminent completion of your degree.

Try not to take that salute the wrong way.

 

[St. Even]

Somebody be the adult and let it go or move it to personal e-mail or take off your shirts and fight like men (that's just an animated sexist expression for purposes of light comic relief, I don't mean to be making any assumptions of gender) because this has gone far beyond the thread topic and is getting way too personal. If you wish to respond to this particular e-mail, and what constitutes "personal" or "animated" or "sexist" or any other tangent, it might make a good topic for a new thread.

Just a suggestion.

 

[afransen]

"Political life is not mathematical."

I think this sums up our disagreement. I never claimed that politics was purely mathematical, but held that mathematical models are useful in discussing the relative merits of different electoral systems.

As far as moral qualms go, I think you don't understand the situation. The position isn't exactly a sacred calling. It's a volunteer position, involving lots of thankless work for the general student body. I would have greater moral qualms with running for the position, winning and then resigning (as you seem to suggest I should have done) due to poor turnout. That would be abandonment of a duty I took on sincerely. Honestly, who would gain from that? But I guess that is a difference in morality between us.

I had already concluded some time ago that we weren't going to get anywhere in this discussion. I find your evasive and obfuscating debating tactics somewhat curious if frustrating. It's not the first time I've seen you do it, so I wasn't surprised. Don't take that the wrong way; it was an entertaining distraction from my other tasks.

 

[Hydrogen]

That would be abandonment of a duty I took on sincerely. Honestly, who would gain from that? But I guess that is a difference in morality between us.

Oh, the sacrifice of it all....


In the end, with respect to the referendum, the merits of the system were decided by the people.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Ah, student politics. Has there ever been something less relevant to anything? Particularly to student life?

 

[afransen]

Oh, the sacrifice of it all....


In the end, with respect to the referendum, the merits of the system were decided by the people.

Yep; troll.

Andrea: I'll agree with you. I think the goal of student politics should be to make things happen that will inevitably be taken for granted. I tend to stay out of the more esoteric stuff, but I like making little things happen that improve students' university experience. The problem is that if no one cared, university services could deteriorate quite a bit.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Plus ca change. Student politicians always think universities can't run without them.

 

[afransen]

The teaching would happen just the same (though in my experience admin is too lazy to consult with students directly on academic issues). It's some of the ancillary services that would suffer.

 

[jade_lee]

Coalition governments are great when social reform is the agenda but in politics I want one party to have the most decision power when doing the right thing is at great costs or compromise to the most powerful society memeber who will override this difficult choices with their louder voice.....think polution reduction measures, the current minority federal government has no clout to do anything so to deal with it they spin and spin and spin. At least the Ontario government promoted flick off. I guess what I am trying to say is that each form of government is both appealing and destructive depending on the problems the democracy it supports finds itself dealing with. I just want accountability to the citizen who trust them blindly by giving them such powers of decisions.