[nfitz]

But I wouldn't call him a racist even though he financially assisted Rob Ford's 2010 campaign. That's taking it too far.

How can he justifying supporting a known racist, wife-beater, and anti-gay candidate then, without endorsing his racism, misogyny and prejudice?

How is it okay to not be any of these things, but fund someone who is without a shadow of the doubt these things?

 

[Crazy]

How can he justifying supporting a known racist, wife-beater, and anti-gay candidate then, without endorsing his racism, misogyny and prejudice?

How is it okay to not be any of these things, but fund someone who is without a shadow of the doubt these things?

Paris Review interview with writer James Ellroy:

INTERVIEWER

You’ve been criticized at times for being racially insensitive. Why do you think that is?

ELLROY

Critics want racism, and secondarily homophobia, to be portrayed as a defining characteristic, rather than a casual attribute. Racist language uttered by sympathetic characters confuses hidebound liberals. Who gives a shit?

I think this is how people like Tory see Ford's racism/homophobia/misogyny: casual attributes.

 

[the lemur]

Oh re Hitler: I don't mind the 30s Autobahn aesthetic. Leni Riefenstahl has her place in cinematic history. The Volkswagen Beetle is iconic, etc etc

The truth about the autobahn scheme has already been pointed out. The VW was something that Ferdinand Porsche was working on and which Hitler co-opted. It never went into production during the Hitler era and his ambition of making it the car for everyone was a failure. Ironically, the project was revived in the post-war period - by a British army officer - and initially manufactured in France, IIRC.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Since more than 50% of our population hold to some kind of spiritual belief system, it is hardly a stretch to say that a very large portion of our population would want creation taught in school.

Then why did the polls show up to 71% opposed Tory's public funding of faith-based schools????

So much for that "theory".

I'll tell you why....because Tory has a knack for supporting monumentally bad ideas. Whether it's being a key player to nearly entirely wiping out an entire federal political party....supporting Rob Ford...negative billing or publicly funding religious schools.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

How can he justifying supporting a known racist, wife-beater, and anti-gay candidate then, without endorsing his racism, misogyny and prejudice?

How is it okay to not be any of these things, but fund someone who is without a shadow of the doubt these things?

nfitz, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS HOLY, PLEASE, PLEASE STOP. We understand your point of view. We do not agree. Let it go.

 

[freshcutgrass]

How can he justifying supporting a known racist, wife-beater, and anti-gay candidate then, without endorsing his racism, misogyny and prejudice?

How is it okay to not be any of these things, but fund someone who is without a shadow of the doubt these things?

Especially when Tory relies so much on being perceived as a principled individual.

 

[sixrings]

Then why did the polls show up to 71% opposed Tory's public funding of faith-based schools????

So much for that "theory".

I'll tell you why....because Tory has a knack for supporting monumentally bad ideas. Whether it's being a key player to nearly entirely wiping out an entire federal political party....supporting Rob Ford...negative billing or publicly funding religious schools.

I go to church every week and I don't believe in faith based school funding. I also don't think prayer should be in the school system. Faith is not meant to be taught by any government. Rather it is the responsibility of the parent. As a result I also believe the school should teach sex education. Too many religious parents are too scared to teach their kids about sex. If the parents aren't going to and statistically they are not then the school should. The one place where I think god should stay is in our national anthem. It has always been there and it does not specify which God. If I was an atheist I believe the best part would be not to have to care at site so it confuses me when atheists want to remove god fromeverything. Anyways as for creation theory. I don't believe in seven days but I simply believe God put it all in order from the big bang . The seven days story of creation was just a creation for dummies book god put out to explain it to us simple humans thousands of years ago. The bible was not meant to be a science text book of how hod made everything rather a book showing how God wants to be apart of everything. Anyways the point is that a religious person can be against faith based school funding.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I dislike John Tory for a lot of reasons. He's an opportunist, he panders. He's out of touch with the real world (being born into a rich family and succeeding mostly thanks to your friendships and connections can do that to you). His transit plan is garbage. He's been at best, lukewarm to the needs of cyclists and pedestrians, caring more about traffic congestion. He probably won't take on the police, he probably won't make the necessary investments in the TTC (particuarly the surface system). He will be able to continue a Ford agenda, but with a more urbane face to it.

But I wouldn't call him a racist even though he financially assisted Rob Ford's 2010 campaign. That's taking it too far. The vast majority supported Ford for his platforms, not because of his racism. I would never equate the support of Ford in 2010 with support of racism/bigotry.

Give it a rest.

This! Let's please let this be the last word and move on to something else.

 

[TonyV]

There is only one thing I've got against Tory: he didn't run for mayor in 2010. The hypothetical polls taken at the time indicated that he would have won, easily, and he could have prevented the Ford fiasco for us all. It would be pure speculation as to whether Tory would be running now for a second term.

I don't believe Tory is a racist or bigot. I'd have discovered these things on my own by now. I feel that Tory would be a good administrator and that is the job requirement. Having said that, I still haven't made my final choice but I'll give you this: I'm pretty bugged with Chow's poor performance to this point, and I need to cast an anti-FordMuppet vote.

 

[Silence&Motion]

I think to call someone out on being new here just stinks. Its a form of elitism that has no place in an open discussion. What we only want to hear from those we already hear from?

Given Nick Kouvalis' history of campaigning through fake internet accounts, I'm suspicious of any new users who show up out of nowhere with a post that reads like a thinly veiled press release.

 

[sixrings]

Anyone have a dead horse gif?

I was hoping this religious conversation was going to be deleted by the mods. I stayed away for a long time but it is frustrating from a religious persons perspective to constantly read by some members on here how stupid and archaic we faith based people are. The other conversation which is getting extremely tiring is the constant debate of if tory is a racist, or a bigot and then the second argument of semantics if one called someone a bigot or simply implied they had to be one by supporting one. This thread has gone down hill in the last week. Like off a cliff down hill.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Don't worry. Doug Ford has just started to get his campaign underway. I'm sure there's a new fiasco just around the corner that will put us all on a new topic.

 

[freshcutgrass]

There is only one thing I've got against Tory: he didn't run for mayor in 2010. The hypothetical polls taken at the time indicated that he would have won, easily, and he could have prevented the Ford fiasco for us all.

Again...goes to monumentally poor judgment.

Now, I can't say for sure that choosing not to run was poor judgment, because I really don't know why he decided not to run. But he didn't just not run....he openly supported Rob Ford and his agenda. He used his influence to convince people that it was reasonable to support Ford and his agenda...I listened to him quite a bit during that time. I think a lot of people resent Tory for trusting in his endorsement and voting for Ford.

Remember...Tory simply saw himself as an important part of a "team", that included Rob Ford, so you support Ford because you have to support the team. Same reason why SAL is such a Ford apologist.

 

[Electrify]

Just want to throw one more thing into this, and that is that maybe 1% of people take Creationism literally, 9% of people are strong defenders of Evolution, and 90% of people don't care either way. Even then, a good chunk of that 90% probably support Evolution, and a good part of that 1% back Creationism because they are expected to (church pastor, right wing pundit, etc).

On topic, I just saw on my Google News widget that Doug is going up in the polls. Didn't read the article though.

 

[Scarberian]

How can he justifying supporting a known racist, wife-beater, and anti-gay candidate then, without endorsing his racism, misogyny and prejudice?

How is it okay to not be any of these things, but fund someone who is without a shadow of the doubt these things?

I can agree with you regarding Rob's behaviour. I think Rob Ford is a racist from his documented behaviour. IMO Andray Domise points addresses the myth that Rob loves "ethnics" just because Rob coached football for some black kids who would otherwise become gang members in Rob's words, or Rob showing up at the fests (that he likely voted against), takes pictures with them, and drops some patois.

I think only an ignorant or naive person thinks a "true" racist is somebody who puts on a full KKK regalia, or looks and acts like a physically violent neo nazi skinhead all the time. Rob is a cowardly bully, so he wouldn't say boo to someone like councilor Michael Thompson, because Michael Thompson is not exactly a 90 lbs stick figure. Rob is more used to picking someone his own size, like an older female who looks like she wouldn't hurt a fly, ie: councilor Pam McConnel. Because Rob is obviously a real man's man. Rob is also much more dangerous than some drunk uncle who does an Archie Bunker impression, but who is otherwise powerless. He was in a position of power as mayor, and he was against many efforts and things that tries to stop\reduce crime in it's early stages such as community centers, and libraries. He treats "ethnics" as an other, as a warning that only Boss Rob can handle and control them. And for the so called ethnics themselves, only King Rob can help them.

Having said that. I don't see John Tory as racist. An empty suit, out of touch, has a habitual foot in mouth outburst, and maybe ignorant though perhaps not willfully like the Fords, possibly very naive to the point of sheltered stupidity, sure I can go with those. Tory as a racist however, I think that's stretching it to the breaking point for me.