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VintagePunk said:
Exactly. The first time I heard this used politically was against John Kerry. .
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The term flip-flopping has been around a long time, but it was always meant to convey someone who changes his mind - not because of new information, but for political reasons. That would indeed be negative. Somewhere along the way Republicans figured out that they could manipulate their base by mangling common terms. They also know that they can point at their enemy and accuse them of something of which they are not guilty. And if that's not heinous enough, they are often guilty of the very thing they accuse their enemy of. Saying someone is tax and spend for example. Statistics show that conservative governments are not better at saving than Liberals.

I am really at the point where I hate politics. More than that, I am dismayed by people who won't bother to absorb facts before voting.
 
anne said:
Yes we do. But what's different now is that the threat is not communism, it's people who live in the same household. Anyone who thinks left of, or disagrees in any way, with the speaker. It has the potential to be more frightening than McCarthyism.
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Sorry, I should have put communism in quotes for emphasis, is the catch all term for anything not "patriotic". And a synonym of "terrorist".
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I've been impressed with what I've seen on her campaign website regarding transit (I suspect innsertnamehere will be too). It appears as if she'll be going beyond drawing lines on the map by initially focusing on service enhancements, greater transit operation subsidies etc... It's encouraging to see a candidate who recognizes that improving transit goes beyond "subways, subways, subway" and drawing lines on maps. The thing about asking experts about how to go about building transit is also a nice touch. I'm getting sick of uninformed politicians spewing nonsense like Finch must have a subway.
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Exactly. We'll see what the specifics of her plan are eventually. But as someone who lived in Scarborough for 25 years and never owned a car, I wish there was a candidate who would improve transit NOW rather than make vague promises about building subways 20 years from now.

Also, the more I look at John Tory, the more I see Nick Kouvalis. If Tory wins, it will mean that Kouvalis' gutter, right-wing politics have triumphed once again.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. Tory's campaign is wholly unambitious. And as you said he's out of touch with reality. I was hoping that he'd be one of my top contenders, but right now he has dropped out of consideration for me. I guess we'll see in the coming months if something better materialized from his campaign.

Soknacki is #2 on my list. He's down to earth, a true fiscal conservative and a rational thinker. All are great qualities to have in a leader and in my estimation would make Soknacki a great manager of the city. Unfortunately I have yet to see much of a vision from Soknacki's campaign. At the moment Toronto is going through a radical transition and we need a visionary to oversee it. If Toronto weren't going through this transition I would very likely vote for a "manager" like Soknacki.

Chow appears to be the only candidate with a radical vision for the city. It has been described as much by people who've seen her campaign. This is exactly what our city needs at the moment. And I've been impressed with what I've seen on her campaign website regarding transit (I suspect innsertnamehere will be too). It appears as if she'll be going beyond drawing lines on the map by initially focusing on service enhancements, greater transit operation subsidies etc... It's encouraging to see a candidate who recognizes that improving transit goes beyond "subways, subways, subway" and drawing lines on maps. The thing about asking experts about how to go about building transit is also a nice touch. I'm getting sick of uninformed politicians spewing nonsense like Finch must have a subway.

Of course Stintz and Ford are out of consideration for obvious reasons.
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oh I'm beyond ecstatic. its kind of vague, but better funding of general operations (my big wish for this election) seems to be there.
 
jusbokeh said:
i dont think you understand how a very large portion of the public think.

co/op affordable housing is for the degenerate members of society. your not supposed to mix and mingle with these people.

you house them in marked neighborhood as examples for others.

if you live there, you are one of them!
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Oi, just let the people who believe that just try to get into a co-op in New York or Vancouver. I'm a reasonably well paid professional and I can't afford it.
 
There are a few New York type co-ops here in Toronto, but that type of housing tenancy type never caught on here. Most co-ops here in Toronto are non-profit rental buildings in which members (not called renters) share responsibilities such as basic administration and light maintenance/landscaping of the property - rents are subsidized for lower income residents. Co-ops in New York are very different and are more of a shared ownership model than a shared membership model.

It's a shame that co-op housing stopped being built - it's a great idea (at least in concept).
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
Chow appears to be the only candidate with a radical vision for the city. It has been described as much by people who've seen her campaign. This is exactly what our city needs at the moment. And I've been impressed with what I've seen on her campaign website regarding transit (I suspect innsertnamehere will be too). It appears as if she'll be going beyond drawing lines on the map by initially focusing on service enhancements, greater transit operation subsidies etc... It's encouraging to see a candidate who recognizes that improving transit goes beyond "subways, subways, subway" and drawing lines on maps. The thing about asking experts about how to go about building transit is also a nice touch. I'm getting sick of uninformed politicians spewing nonsense like Finch must have a subway.
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To expand on my thoughts, I feel that Chow's *apparent* focus on improving current transit services is something that will resonate well with voters. For decades voters have been shown fanciful multibillion dollar lines on maps that almost always fail to materialize. After being lied to so many times (is it fair to say that?), I feel that voters will be pleased to see a completely realistic plan that we'll immediately benefit from.
 
anne said:
Isn't it too early to say for certain?
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Why? Chow, Tory and Stintz are known commodities. Anyone who approaches politics with a consistent perspective does not need to endure an endless campaign to at least know whether they are on the Chow side vs. the Tory/Stintz side. There is a lot of blue sky between Chow and everyone else in this campaign, with the possible exception of Socknacki, though I don't think so. Yes, I know there is the legendary "undecided" and "swing" vote out there but I believe these are people who do not have a consistent ideological perspective and either largely don't pay attention to politics until the last minute, which is fine, or people who pay too much attention to campaign promises over established records.
 
Chow's transit plans:

Scarb LRT instead of subway

On the topic of the DRL:

“The Downtown Relief Line is in the books, it’s a good idea, but it’s quite expensive. I wouldn’t want to raise property taxes too much so I think we need to have a good discussion about all the things we can do,†she told 680 News.
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Southcore said:
Chow's transit plans:

Scarb LRT instead of subway

On the topic of the DRL:
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Ugh. Blah. She wants to go back to a dead transit plan in Scarborough. The province has committed to the subway. The only way the LRT can come back is if the NDP wins big in the next provincial election which won't happen. And from the sounds of it, she isn't going to push for the DRL to be the next major transit project. It basically sounds like she wants to push the DRL back and on put all of Transit City back on. Thanks, but no thanks to Olivia Chow as mayor. Give me Karen Stintz or John Tory who actually want to get the DRL going and not go back to revisit the Scarborough transit debate.
 
Southcore said:
Chow's transit plans:

Scarb LRT instead of subway

On the topic of the DRL:
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Welp. C'mon, we need some subway infrastructure in the downtown core. This is why I wasn't too quick to jump on the "second coming of Jesus" Chow bandwagon. I'm not opposed to taxation, but at least spend it in the right places. We need subway relief.
 
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It'll be interesting to see how pro-Chow folks will spin her LRT stance given Soknacki was bashed for opting for it and reopening the debate. The waffling on the DRL was also disappointing. Yes, it will be expensive, but we need it.

At this point I don't know who I'm voting for: definitely not Ford or Stintz but Chow isn't a lock anymore for me (and I'd imagine many others as well). We still have a long way to go maybe she can clear things up.
 
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