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nfitz said:
And why wouldn't Chow make good mayor?

Remember, the bar is pretty low after Lastman and Ford.
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Chow wouldn't make a good mayor. She's perceived as being too left wing. However, in her defence, given Tory's record I expect his performance as mayor to be as poor as Chow's
 
nfitz said:
How is how she is perceived or politics going to impact how good a mayor or not she is?
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The policies Chow puts in place could be fantastic, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she'll be a good mayor. The problem is that people perceive her as being far left wing. Unless she can change that perception of herself, certain people in our city will inevitably feel alienated, further dividing our city. The measure of a good mayor isn't just how good their policies are, but also how effectively they can represent all individuals in our city.

As for Tory, throughout his public and private career he's demonstrated that he's a great speaker, but an incompetent leader. He'll falter soon after he becomes mayor, albeit not as fast as Mayor Ford. Its no surprise that Tory, with his political strategists and fantastic speaking abilities was able to gain the support of the plurality of the city, but once people see his poor leadership I expect that the city will swiftly turn against him.

The theme of this election was definitely incompetent and unifying vs. compitent and devicive.
 
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The problem with Chow is not that she's divisive, but that she doesn't cater to a large enough percentage of voters.

Ford and Tory are products of marketing, and as marketing products a large 'target audience' was selected and catered to. They are reactive, shallow, highly adaptable personalities - where the emphasis is on 'being perceived as a leader', etc.

Chow focused on the policies and on 'being inclusive', which is obviously preferable but ignores the underlying processes that clearly drive democracy in the amalgamated city.

David Miller was successful because he was perceived as a strong leader, a good orator, a protector, etc. This is, sadly, as far as most voting Torontonians will see.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Unless she can change that perception of herself, certain people in our city will inevitably feel alienated, further dividing our city. The measure of a good mayor isn't just how good their policies are, but also how effectively they can represent all individuals in our city.
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Chow has been representing all sorts for 30 years. People don't seem alienated.

I'm sure the white-wingnuts who were chanting for her to go home to China will feel alienated. Isn't that a good thing?

TheTigerMaster said:
As for Tory, throughout his public and private career he's demonstrated that he's a great speaker, but an incompetent leader. He'll falter soon after he becomes mayor, albeit not as fast as Mayor Ford.
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I really doubt that. John Tory might not be a great leader. But he's not totally incompetent. He'll choose someone who'll pick good staff. And he'll have a lot of competent people telling him what to do, and writing him inspiring speeches.

He'll do just fine. Well, assuming you're fine with less bike lanes, less transit, more budget cuts, and the like. But that's not a measure of competence.
 
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No one will falter like Ford ... I can't believe anyone would even make the assertion ... honestly such a person may almost be as incompetent as Ford him self ... in all seriousness anyone who has viewed many of the council sessions from pre-2010 election would know for a fact Rob Ford is completely incompetent, his brother, as much as I do not agree with just about anything that comes out of his moth, is no where near this category of incompetency; Rather I view him more as a layperson, Rob is much much lower than this.
 
nfitz said:
I really doubt that. John Tory might not be a great leader. But he's not totally incompetent. He'll choose someone who'll pick good staff. And he'll have a lot of competent people telling him what to do, and writing him inspiring speeches.

He'll do just fine. Well, assuming you're fine with less bike lanes, less transit, more budget cuts, and the like. But that's not a measure of competence.
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Okay, maybe incompetent is too strong a word.

John Tory's political and private record has been extremely unimpressive, to put it kindly. The man talks big and under delivers. I'm not expecting any better from him when he's Mayor. He'll at best be mediocre and at worse a total failure. But perhaps mediocre is all we need?

We'll get to see Tory's [poor] leadership abilities first hand when he'll have to deal with the upcoming budget crisis in a few weeks. Given that he's promised not to raise property taxes, I look forward to seeing how he'll dig us out of the $300m budget hole. I'm not expecting his performance to be particularly impressive.
 
RC8 said:
The problem with Chow is not that she's divisive, but that she doesn't cater to a large enough percentage of voters.
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To me that just seems like another way of saying she's divisive. If you're not catering to everyone (or nearly everyone), are you not ignoring some of the population and therefor being divisive?

Ford and Tory are products of marketing, and as marketing products a large 'target audience' was selected and catered to. They are reactive, shallow, highly adaptable personalities - where the emphasis is on 'being perceived as a leader', etc.

Chow focused on the policies and on 'being inclusive', which is obviously preferable but ignores the underlying processes that clearly drive democracy in the amalgamated city.

David Miller was successful because he was perceived as a strong leader, a good orator, a protector, etc. This is, sadly, as far as most voting Torontonians will see.
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I think you hit the nail on the head.
 
taal said:
No one will falter like Ford ... I can't believe anyone would even make the assertion ... honestly such a person may almost be as incompetent as Ford him self ... in all seriousness anyone who has viewed many of the council sessions from pre-2010 election would know for a fact Rob Ford is completely incompetent, his brother, as much as I do not agree with just about anything that comes out of his moth, is no where near this category of incompetency; Rather I view him more as a layperson, Rob is much much lower than this.
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Did I say that he'll falter in a similar fashion to Ford? I went out of my way to say that Tory will falter, albeit not as fast as Ford.

No, he won't have a crack cocaine crisis three years into his term, but like Mayor Ford, I expect the quality of Tory's already weak leadership abilities to collapse before the next muni election. Tory's term as mayor will not be a successful one.

Edit: To be fair, I could have said that "Tory will falter, albeit, [not as fast/faster] than [any mayor who's faltered] and my statement would be just as accurate. So if it makes you feel better, I expect that Tory will falter, albeit, far faster than Mayor Miller.
 
nfitz said:
And why wouldn't Chow make good mayor?

Remember, the bar is pretty low after Lastman and Ford.
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I neither said nor believe that she wouldn't. I was just including that point of Meslin's because Silence&Motion seemed to have selectively forgotten it in trying to discredit Meslin. :)
 
I'm sure Chow would make a decent enough mayor. Tory as well.
I just want a mayor who isn't clearly trying to destroy the city I grew up in. You know, like the last one tried to do.
 
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