denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Andrew, you are admitting some people are jerks. Chow is the best person to be mayor right now. John Tory is a polls guy, which is fine, that's how you win, but not a leader.
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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Andrew, you are admitting some people are jerks. Chow is the best person to be mayor right now. John Tory is a polls guy, which is fine, that's how you win, but not a leader.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
rbt
Senior Member
Yeah. I'd still like a mayor who does something with their time in office. Promising to watch the province implement a plan the province conceived of is really lame.
I'd like to see more TTC oriented promises from him that don't rely on 3rd party funding.
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andrewpmk
Senior Member
Bike lanes on Dupont definitely cause congestion. If you narrow a road for bike lanes that almost no one uses, it causes congestion.
Had Miller been honest about the Transit City thing in 2006 then he would have lost.
Had Miller been honest about the Transit City thing in 2006 then he would have lost.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
So what's your excuse for congestion on the DVP, Andrew?
salsa
Senior Member
Miller
ehlow
Senior Member
Our highways are unusable during rush hour now. I wish we could just put bus lanes and run express buses on them, coming a bit off of the highway for stops. At least then they could be used to actually transport people at reasonable speeds for something during rush hour, instead of just being a parking lot.
Of course, this would never happen because drivers would freak out. So instead the roads will just get more and more congested as rush hour becomes rush day.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Ehlow, I'm no expert, but I believe what you describe is an infinite loop. Under no condition will drivers give up road space to allow for more efficient modes of transport.
What's the result of this infinate loop? Drivers continue to crowd onto roads, while ignoring all the solutions for relieving congestion. They use more and more resources until, eventually, the entire system comes crashing down.
*excuse me while I laugh at my own lame joke
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
It's sad that I thought this was a serious response at first.
ehlow
Senior Member
Ehlow, I'm no expert, but I believe what you describe is an infinite loop. Under no condition will drivers give up road space to allow for more efficient modes of transport.
What's the result of this infinate loop? Drivers continue to crowd onto roads, while ignoring all the solutions for relieving congestion. They use more and more resources until, eventually, the entire system comes crashing down.
*excuse me while I laugh at my own lame joke
Unless you're writing kernel code it should not crash the system, only the process would become unresponsive, which can be killed won't take the whole system down.
Similarly, even if traffic becomes completely gridlocked, which it already is, luckily there are alternatives that are traffic immune (that's the high order bit) such as subways, GO trains and things with exclusive lanes like LRT/BRT or Spadina/St Clair, things that will move people no matter how insanely gridlocked the roads are. We just need more of those things.
I don't usually drive on a highway during rush hour, but last time I did it was actually slower than biking. < 15 km/h the whole way. Highways are not viable at all during rush hour anymore. I can't even imagine how it'll be in 10 years.
salsa
Senior Member
It's a placeholder response on behalf of Andrewpmk, until he comes back to elaborate on his conspiracy theory perpetrated by the Miller agenda that would explain the congestion on the DVP.
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RogerB
New Member
Smart Track changes
Smart Track
The parts of Smart Track that mimic existing GO plans are fine, but the populist changes cause problems.
1) Cross Etobicoke (surface) subway.
As mentioned on this site, and surely known to Tory's campaign, Build Toronto sold the Richview corridor to developers, and included no provisions for a surface subway trench. EMUs would require a long express subway through the low density auto-oriented Eglinton W corridor to a massive highway interchange. Station names, like Scarlett-Jane, seem designed to make residents think they're (each) getting the station. They are far apart.
2) Cost - price of a TTC fare
Why would the Province offer bargain fares on parts of 2 GO lines between the Mississauga border and Unionville, and not on other lines or within the 416? Express and long distance trips tend to cost more. GO currently has an 83% operating recovery ratio, or $4.71 per trip (TTC $0.41 per trip). Tory suggests that low GO fares would attract 200,000 riders (currently 187,000 on all 7 lines) adding a huge number of riders, while simultaneously slashing income (fares). GO is certainly aware that lower fares would add riders, but has been focused on cost recovery. For example, the Province's newest express train, Pearson - Union, is projecting fares between $20 - $30 in a misguided attempt to avoid incurring additional Provincial operating subsidies.
3) Timeframe: 7 years
Perhaps in China. The shorter (than Etobicoke Subway) Scarborough Subway is projected to take 10 years, and didn't begin until the city abandoned its dubious TIF funding model, agreeing to 30 years of tax hikes. The Etobicoke subway is just a small part of a 53 kilometre line that would use the same, or new, tracks & stations, as other GO services, which would also be undergoing electrification and expanded frequencies.
4) Funding?
The campaign says Toronto will pay a third of the (Tory estimated) $8 billion price tag. Like Ford, nothing up front, hoping billions can be raised from taxing new development along the corridor. The Province is likely not impressed. Plus, they & the Feds might have more important/ other priorities.
5) Unionville to 427 & Eglinton = Yonge Relief Line = icing DRL
Yonge needs relief during the busiest periods. Smart Track offers service up to every 15 minutes, or 4 single level (Aukland EMU) trains per hour. The Province's (optimistic) 10 year RER plan would provide much more peak capacity using 7 lines. Added items which delay the DRL and RER are unhelpful.
One City odds & ends..
-- Scarborough Subway
Rather than scrapping this political gravy train, Tory promises Etobicoke an even longer Surface (underground) Subway, which likewise replaces a proposed LRT.
Sheppard & Finch LRTs
Tory promises to tell the Province to put them on hold until the 'Yonge Relief Line' appears.
Buses & streetcars to address cutbacks & record ridership?
Too controversial in a climate where transit on the road is considered a source of congestion.
Even if Ford loses, his reign of misinformation will live on for many years.
Smart Track
The parts of Smart Track that mimic existing GO plans are fine, but the populist changes cause problems.
1) Cross Etobicoke (surface) subway.
As mentioned on this site, and surely known to Tory's campaign, Build Toronto sold the Richview corridor to developers, and included no provisions for a surface subway trench. EMUs would require a long express subway through the low density auto-oriented Eglinton W corridor to a massive highway interchange. Station names, like Scarlett-Jane, seem designed to make residents think they're (each) getting the station. They are far apart.
2) Cost - price of a TTC fare
Why would the Province offer bargain fares on parts of 2 GO lines between the Mississauga border and Unionville, and not on other lines or within the 416? Express and long distance trips tend to cost more. GO currently has an 83% operating recovery ratio, or $4.71 per trip (TTC $0.41 per trip). Tory suggests that low GO fares would attract 200,000 riders (currently 187,000 on all 7 lines) adding a huge number of riders, while simultaneously slashing income (fares). GO is certainly aware that lower fares would add riders, but has been focused on cost recovery. For example, the Province's newest express train, Pearson - Union, is projecting fares between $20 - $30 in a misguided attempt to avoid incurring additional Provincial operating subsidies.
3) Timeframe: 7 years
Perhaps in China. The shorter (than Etobicoke Subway) Scarborough Subway is projected to take 10 years, and didn't begin until the city abandoned its dubious TIF funding model, agreeing to 30 years of tax hikes. The Etobicoke subway is just a small part of a 53 kilometre line that would use the same, or new, tracks & stations, as other GO services, which would also be undergoing electrification and expanded frequencies.
4) Funding?
The campaign says Toronto will pay a third of the (Tory estimated) $8 billion price tag. Like Ford, nothing up front, hoping billions can be raised from taxing new development along the corridor. The Province is likely not impressed. Plus, they & the Feds might have more important/ other priorities.
5) Unionville to 427 & Eglinton = Yonge Relief Line = icing DRL
Yonge needs relief during the busiest periods. Smart Track offers service up to every 15 minutes, or 4 single level (Aukland EMU) trains per hour. The Province's (optimistic) 10 year RER plan would provide much more peak capacity using 7 lines. Added items which delay the DRL and RER are unhelpful.
One City odds & ends..
-- Scarborough Subway
Rather than scrapping this political gravy train, Tory promises Etobicoke an even longer Surface (underground) Subway, which likewise replaces a proposed LRT.
Sheppard & Finch LRTs
Tory promises to tell the Province to put them on hold until the 'Yonge Relief Line' appears.
Buses & streetcars to address cutbacks & record ridership?
Too controversial in a climate where transit on the road is considered a source of congestion.
Even if Ford loses, his reign of misinformation will live on for many years.
Electrify
Senior Member
I hope ssiguy's ban is only a temporary one. I've been following his posts since SSC, and while he could have chose his words a little better, I do think he adds to the discussion. I've used far worse words towards a certain woman in the media without any warnings (though in my defence, said woman actively courts this distinction to the point that she is the postergirl for it. Can't really think of anything Chow has said or done to make one want to use such language).
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Ssiguy is far from constructive, he repeats the same arguments over and over despite being corrected multiple times on the issue, and no matter what occurs in Toronto, it is being done wrong (according to him)
If you've been on these boards for a while you quickly get sick of it, especially since he posts the same crap on SSP and SSC.
There are plans for more bus lanes on the DVP for GO buses. Likely won't happen now that all day GO will be hapoening very soon though, the downtown GO bus terminal will essentially be useless in 10 years.
If you've been on these boards for a while you quickly get sick of it, especially since he posts the same crap on SSP and SSC.
There are plans for more bus lanes on the DVP for GO buses. Likely won't happen now that all day GO will be hapoening very soon though, the downtown GO bus terminal will essentially be useless in 10 years.
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salsa
Senior Member
Reminds me of andrewpmk.