[Midtown Urbanist]

So in other words, if Scarborough Subway is built, Sheppard's overall ridership will remain about as is but peak hour ridership will drop to a level sustainable by a BRT.

Anyway, I am fine with the LRT. Its just that if an anti-LRT mayor is elected and the locals demand the cancellation of the LRT, I say we let them and build the BRT for much cheaper instead. Use the LRT money for the DRL. The idea of caving in and building a full Sheppard subway as some have suggested in this thread is ludicrous.

 

[ehlow]

Tiger Master, you might appreciate this:

Ford wanted to talk to people on the Sheppard line about extending it but there were only 4 people on the train with him lol:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...as-rob-ford-seeks-out-subway-riders-1.2760039

Also in the news, some of you may not believe him, but Tory had this to say about Sheppard & Finch LRTs & the DRL:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...nd_sensible_way_out_of_torontos_gridlock.html

I support the Finch and Sheppard LRTs proceeding as planned. I will get on with the Scarborough subway extension, which all three levels of government support. I will keep us moving toward the goal of a downtown relief subway line. And I will build SmartTrack in seven years, not 17.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That's true. However, that ridership assumption is including the SLRT as the "Scarborough Solution", not the Scarborough Subway to McCowan & Sheppard. That would likely lower the peak point ridership by at least 1,000 pphpd, bringing it right in the wheelhouse of BRT. In the AM peak, most riders coming from east of McCowan will transfer onto the subway, and you would likely get quite a few counter-flow riders heading eastbound in the AM peak to get to the subway. Of those riders, most of, if not all of whom would be heading westbound in the AM peak all the way to Don Mills, and would be counted in that 3,100 if the SLRT were to be built instead.

Put simply: If the Scarborough Subway is built, Sheppard East doesn't need anything more than a BRT until well beyond 2031.

Metrolinx really should do another study on the SELRT. This is all idle speculation until then.

Edit: I do understand their reluctance to do so. I don't think there are very many people who want to reopen this debate.

 

[M II A II R II K]

See much time you can shave off of your commute with John Tory:

Although I don't think it takes 19 minutes to get from St. George to Union.

http://smarttracker.ca/

 

[rbt]

See much time you can shave off of your commute with John Tory:

Although I don't think it takes 19 minutes to get from St. George to Union.

It could, if you cut the TTC State of Good Repair budget enough.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So what will John Tory do about Eglinton Ave west from the airport to Mount Dennis? How will SmartTrack go through there?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We are talking Sheppard. Sheppard is more like 3,000 pphpd.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...25/torontotransit_boardreport_25april2012.pdf



And I think Finch is more like 2,800 [same source].

We have conflicting sources:

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/regiona...enefitscases/Benefits_Case-Sheppard-Finch.pdf (Page 8)

This is why planning in the GTA sucks! Metrolinx is clearly talking out of both sides of their mouth here.

Den, although there are many definitions of "BRT", most people would not say that an express bus like 190 rocket is BRT. It's an express bus. The only difference between it and a normal bus is wider stop spacing.

I suggest reading up on BRT, googling it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_rapid_transit

Fair, but it if it was in special colored lanes and had different lights most people would otherwise.

 

[ehlow]

So what will John Tory do about Eglinton Ave west from the airport to Mount Dennis? How will SmartTrack go through there?

Funny you ask that, I just read an article about that:
http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=199507

If they reserved a 4.2 meter strip as the article says, elevated seems like the only practical way to me.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Funny you ask that, I just read an article about that:
http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=199507

If they reserved a 4.2 meter strip as the article says, elevated seems like the only practical way to me.

Well I think it will either be a tunnel or elevated. If not then we we will see the Eglinton West LRT be built. By the way, can I say how glad I am that this is getting attention?

 

[ehlow]

Now we know why it costs 8 billion:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1552194/john-tory-launches-ad-campaign-to-sell-smarttrack-transit-plan/

Tory says they might tunnel under Eglinton:

Tory said the cost of underground tunneling is already incorporated into the $8 billion price tag to electrify the GO train lines and buying new trains.

Seems like over-kill to me.

 

[nfitz]

Well I think it will either be a tunnel or elevated. If not then we we will see the Eglinton West LRT be built. By the way, can I say how glad I am that this is getting attention?

If there wasn't enough ridership to justify the $500 million LRT from Mount Dennis to Commerce, how is there ridership to build Tory's multi-billion$ DumbTrack?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If there wasn't enough ridership to justify the $500 million LRT from Mount Dennis to Commerce, how is there ridership to build Tory's multi-billion$ DumbTrack?

It got cut because of the recession not ridership. Besides its basically a commuter train, so the ridership will come.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Now we know why it costs 8 billion:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1552194/john-tory-launches-ad-campaign-to-sell-smarttrack-transit-plan/

Tory says they might tunnel under Eglinton:


Seems like over-kill to me.

That is overkill. No way in hell are we paying for a subway under Eglinton West. Nope. It would be another Sheppard Subway disaster.

 

[nfitz]

It got cut because of the recession not ridership.

If you go through the cuts though, they were clearly done based on ridership. The AM peak ridership from Commerce where Tory wants to end his line was only 400 riders per hour in 2031. Yes, it get's to 2,900 at Jane, but it's only 900 west of Kipling! Compare to 3,500 at Mount Dennis, and 5,000 at Dufferin.

Now you do get an interesting reverse commute going with 1,500 westbound at Mount Dennis, increasing to 1,800 at Islington, before reducing to 1,500 at Commerce (of which 500 keep going to Pearson). But those are still very low numbers.

Besides its basically a commuter train, so the ridership will come.

Come from where? Tory is talking about subway like frequencies. If the capacity is that of a subway train, you need a train ever 40 minutes westbound, past Mount Dennis in AM peak. And you only need one every 2 hours coming back! If using GO trains, one train an hour at peak suffices, assuming you don't run enough service so no one is standing. Presumably less service off-peak.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you go through the cuts though, they were clearly done based on ridership. The AM peak ridership from Commerce where Tory wants to end his line was only 400 riders per hour in 2031. Yes, it get's to 2,900 at Jane, but it's only 900 west of Kipling! Compare to 3,500 at Mount Dennis, and 5,000 at Dufferin.

Now you do get an interesting reverse commute going with 1,500 westbound at Mount Dennis, increasing to 1,800 at Islington, before reducing to 1,500 at Commerce (of which 500 keep going to Pearson). But those are still very low numbers.

Come from where? Tory is talking about subway like frequencies. If the capacity is that of a subway train, you need a train ever 40 minutes westbound, past Mount Dennis in AM peak. And you only need one every 2 hours coming back! If using GO trains, one train an hour at peak suffices, assuming you don't run enough service so no one is standing. Presumably less service off-peak.

But again, it's just like the go train, so it will run in 15 minutes. If this was subway I would say this was valid but it's no different from the GO Train or UPX.