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TOareaFan said:
Mostly but not 100%......the "buses over streetcars" crowd will always point out that if there is an accident or turning vehicle or whatever blocking the lane the streetcar is sharing with cars...they are blocked....whereas a bus can change lanes and go around the blockage.
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Yes, of course. Although you can just as easily easily say that with low-floor multi door streetcars it's easier for large groups of people to get on & off, reducing dwell time, and blockage is less likely to happen when it has exclusive ROW like on Spadina.
 
I was planning on attending but decided to go home instead when I heard that Tory dropped out.

Perhaps it is a calculated political move. SmartTrack is terribly weak as a transit plan, the best thing to do is just shut-up about it until after the election. Nobody will remember "TTC rider's group" being furious come election day.

edit: Cross-post with nfitz.
 
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GenerationW said:
The most successful mode of rapid transit by far in Toronto's history appeals to a lot of Torontonians? Go figure!
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I can understand the narrow-mindedness of Torontonians, as they havent experienced other successful forms of rapid transit due to the lack of development over the last 30 years
Im sure that if they can see the benefits of LRT/BRT as a cash strapped compromise that will bear fruit much sooner they will soon jump on that band wagon
 
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WislaHD said:
Nobody will remember "TTC rider's group" being furious come election day.
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No, but for those of us already on the edge about Tory being weak on Transit, it reinforces it.

Though I'm also on the edge about Chow being weak on transit (fix TTC operations for $15 million - bull) - and this only pushes me towards her on that issue.

On the bright side I've been able to eliminate D!ONNE Renée from consideration. So that's 2 down, and 64 to go.

(I have to wonder how ranked ballots would work in 2018 with 66 candidates. Can I really rank Blank Ford as number 66?
 
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Since SmartTrack is a campaign tactic and won't ever come into place, I am treating a vote for Tory as:

* Prioritizing electrification of Stoufville and the other one first (I don't take GO transit, I really have no idea what they are called :p)
* Lobbying the province to speed up fare electrification
* Improved Bus plan (that is superior to Chow's)
* Not flip-flopping on Scarborough atleast until it becomes clear that the B-D extension is too costly
* Letting City Council decide the rest

Overall, not a bad outcome.
 
As a student at Ryerson, dropping out of the TTC debate simply shows disrespect to young voters or student voters. Very disappointed.
 
I have some strong thoughts about thoughts about Tory and his delicison to withdraw from this debate (something about him being a pathetic little coward), but I shall keep those to myself.

Anyways I'm not surprised that the man is terrified of defending his poorly thought out transit plan that's built on a mountain of lies. Hopefully Chow's campaign will continue to pressure Tory on the SmartTrack issue. They must not remain silent.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Personally I'm surprised that fiscally conservative John Tory would support a subway on Eglinton West. Such a project would be more wasteful than the Sheppard Subway and quite possibly the most wasteful infrastructure initiative since the incorporation of our municipality.

Within the City of Toronto, the underground portion of John Tory's SmartTrack plan runs roughly from Kipling to Mt. Dennis. Recall that in the Travel Demand Forecasting Report, the Eglinton Line is projected to move 3,500 persons per hour at Mt. Dennis. This number is reduced to a meager 900 persons as we move towards our Kipling Avenue. This is far below the 15,000 pphpd threshold the TTC recommends for subway construction.

To put these numbers in perspective, the Sheppard Subway, which is quite likely the most wasteful infrastructure project since the incorporation of our municipality, moves 4,000 pphpd. The Sheppard Subway would move more people than the John Tory endorsed Eglinton Subway. Tory's Eglinton Subway would also move less people than the King and Spadina streetcars. This is unacceptable given the availability of more cost effective alternatives, including the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, an Allen Road style surface HRT solution one of the nearby rail corridors.
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1) Sheppard Subway moves 5,500 at the peak.

2) Tory's Eglinton SmartTrack would attract more riders than the same section of Eglinton LRT, because downtown-bound riders from the Royal York, Islington, Kipling buses etc will transfer to SmartTrack instead of going to Bloor subway.

Still, running SmartTrack along Eglinton is not a good idea. It is cheaper to continue it up the Weston corridor, and connect to those same Royal York, Islington, Kipling bus routes a bit further north.
 
Rainforest said:
1) Sheppard Subway moves 5,500 at the peak.
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I have 4,500 here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...e.pdf+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=safari.

2) Tory's Eglinton SmartTrack would attract more riders than the same section of Eglinton LRT, because downtown-bound riders from the Royal York, Islington, Kipling buses etc will transfer to SmartTrack instead of going to Bloor subway.

Still, running SmartTrack along Eglinton is not a good idea. It is cheaper to continue it up the Weston corridor, and connect to those same Royal York, Islington, Kipling bus routes a bit further north.
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Agreed
 
I think that even if Tory is elected and has council support, SmartTrack will likely be heavily modified.

When Ford won, he had to negotiate with Metrolinx, and his transit plan right after he was elected looked NOTHING like his transit plan from his campaign. For example, his campaign transit plan had no rapid transit on Eglinton and a subway replacing SRT, whereas right after he became mayor the negotiated plan was SRT connected with Eglinton as a fully underground LRT.

Anyways, let's say Tory wins, has council support, and they do plan to build something on Eglinton West. Things like the stations would still be up for debate & negotiation, I think there would be huge pressure for them to have more stops in Etobicoke. Currently the map has only 2 stops between Mt Dennis and Mississauga, which doesn't seem like enough to me, considering the amount of stops in Scarborough is more subway-like.

Tory doesn't seem extremely committed to the details of SmartTrack anyways, ex. he didn't give much thought on the alignment throught Eglinton West. I don't think he would really oppose changes to it like the addition of stations, I doubt he really cares that much as long as overall the line looks somewhat like the line he drew on the map.
 
ehlow said:
I think that even if Tory is elected and has council support, SmartTrack will likely be heavily modified.

When Ford won, he had to negotiate with Metrolinx, and his transit plan right after he was elected looked NOTHING like his transit plan from his campaign. For example, his campaign transit plan had no rapid transit on Eglinton and a subway replacing SRT, whereas right after he became mayor the negotiated plan was SRT connected with Eglinton as a fully underground LRT.

Anyways, let's say Tory wins, has council support, and they do plan to build something on Eglinton West. Things like the stations would still be up for debate & negotiation, I think there would be huge pressure for them to have more stops in Etobicoke. Currently the map has only 2 stops between Mt Dennis and Mississauga, which doesn't seem like enough to me, considering the amount of stops in Scarborough is more subway-like.

Tory doesn't seem extremely committed to the details of SmartTrack anyways, ex. he didn't give much thought on the alignment throught Eglinton West. I don't think he would really oppose changes to it like the addition of stations, I doubt he really cares that much as long as overall the line looks somewhat like the line he drew on the map.
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which is why I hope it stops at Weston and Eglinton west lrt comes back from the dead..... Makes much more sense to have one crosstown line then a part buried HRL, part underground LRT, part above ground LRT all on one street.
 
Rainforest said:
2) Tory's Eglinton SmartTrack would attract more riders than the same section of Eglinton LRT, because downtown-bound riders from the Royal York, Islington, Kipling buses etc will transfer to SmartTrack instead of going to Bloor subway.
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How? The glossy website, which has virtually no information, shows stops only at Kipling and Scarlett. This wouldn't be for Etobicoke, it would be through Etobicoke. For much less money you could probably build the crosstown extension and continue the RER along the current railtracks. It really makes me wonder who thought this up, and whether the questions about avoiding the north part of Etobicoke were really so off-base
 
WislaHD said:
Since SmartTrack is a campaign tactic and won't ever come into place, I am treating a vote for Tory as:

* Prioritizing electrification of Stoufville and the other one first (I don't take GO transit, I really have no idea what they are called :p)
* Lobbying the province to speed up fare electrification
* Improved Bus plan (that is superior to Chow's)
* Not flip-flopping on Scarborough atleast until it becomes clear that the B-D extension is too costly
* Letting City Council decide the rest

Overall, not a bad outcome.
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Your voting for Tory because you assume he's not going to do what he promised to do!?!?

What is this "Improved Bus Plan" that is superior to Chow's? I haven't seen this.
 
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