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RE: Two-party system talk.

The USA is not really a two-party system in the sense that Canada is a two or three-party system. Because the USA has public primaries, anyone can have a say in who the nominee for a party is. As a result the Republican and Democratic parties are really just loose coalitions of many smaller political groups. Labor Democrats are different from conservative "blue dog" Democrats and "latte" liberal Democrats. Just as libertarian Republicans are different from evangelical Republicans and big business Republicans. In Canada, if you don't like your party's policies, your only option is to go out and form a new party (which would explain why our third parties are more successful than theirs).

Last night I heard Dave Meslin on TVO complaining about how Canadians don't have enough choice in their elections. That may be true. However, if there's one thing the American's don't lack in their political system, it's choice. Just look at all the characters that come out of the woodwork during primary season on both the left and the right (but mostly the right). Americans are spoiled for choice during their elections. The question is whether we think this choice actually delivers all of the benefits that Meslin and others claim it does.
 
Today Hazel McCallion endorsed the Liberals. I wonder how much influence she will have on the election.
 
Silence&Motion said:
RE: Two-party system talk.

The USA is not really a two-party system in the sense that Canada is a two or three-party system. Because the USA has public primaries, anyone can have a say in who the nominee for a party is. As a result the Republican and Democratic parties are really just loose coalitions of many smaller political groups. Labor Democrats are different from conservative "blue dog" Democrats and "latte" liberal Democrats. Just as libertarian Republicans are different from evangelical Republicans and big business Republicans. In Canada, if you don't like your party's policies, your only option is to go out and form a new party (which would explain why our third parties are more successful than theirs).

Last night I heard Dave Meslin on TVO complaining about how Canadians don't have enough choice in their elections. That may be true. However, if there's one thing the American's don't lack in their political system, it's choice. Just look at all the characters that come out of the woodwork during primary season on both the left and the right (but mostly the right). Americans are spoiled for choice during their elections. The question is whether we think this choice actually delivers all of the benefits that Meslin and others claim it does.
Click to expand...

I thought that registered citizen members could vote for their party leaders, both in Canada and the US?

In fairness, the US is just as much as a multiparty system as we are as there are 4-5 parties which can potentially form the government (Greens, Nader*, Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians). Just that there the vast majority align themselves to either the Democrats and Republicans, as opposed to here where we align ourselves to 2.5 parties.
 
Electrify said:
I thought that registered citizen members could vote for their party leaders, both in Canada and the US?
Click to expand...

My understanding is to join a Canadian political party, you need to fill out an application and pay a membership fee - like joining any other type of organization. But in America you can register to vote as a party member or as an independent. My understanding is that the majority of the American public is actually registered under some type of party (whereas I suspect that a very small minority of Canadians actually have party membership). Once you're registered, you're free to vote in any primary. In some states you can vote in primaries no matter how you register (e.g. Democrats can vote in Republican primaries).

The other difference is that local candidates in Canada are essentially determined by the party leadership, whereas in the US they are determined by the party leadership. Therefore local candidates have very little loyalty to party leadership.
 
Great point about the American primaries bringing a different philosophy of each party. Their primaries are very interesting and does find a much closer representation of the 50% of their population than we do (would Rob Ford surprise a Toronto right-wing primary when he ran for Mayor, I am not sure ) The best way to get this here is with ranked ballots (with all levels of government) it forces parties to work together instead of just trying to please 38% of the voters to get a "majority"

The provincial poll is all over the place. I am a numbers geek and I can't make anything out of it. Forum and Ipsos seem to be as opposite as you can get. Looking forward to other companies getting into it. Something I can't stand is that Bell media has a partnership with Ipsos a lot in their media (especially cfrb radio) act like Ipsos numbers is conclusive and not mentioned that Forum poll that deputes the Ipsos number. If they want to say they don't trust Forum, that's fine but they mention Forum all the time when talking about mayor polls (as forum does the most polls for mayor race)

I think Hazel endorsement helps Wynne. But Mississauga seems to be mostly safe Liberal ridings. Remember the gas plants were cancelled out of Sauga. 5 out of 6 Sauga riding are Liberal and 4 of them seem safe Liberal holds. The only Sauga riding that seems to be a toss up is Mississauga-Erindale (a Conseravative has this riding federally). The other riding is Bramalea who has an NDP MPP and seems to be a strong incumbent.
 
I've compiled a list of things Hudak wants to eliminate/cut/privatize and I'm sure I'm missing some:

30% tuition grant
Student loans for those who don't maintain a certain grade
100,000 public sector jobs
Almost all LRT projects in the province
LCBO
OLG
TVO
Ontario Power Authority
Ontario College of Trades
Drive Clean
Green Energy Act
Greenbelt
Healthy homes renovation tax credit
 
WislaHD said:
In this system, any vote that is not a vote for the winning party is essentially a wasted vote
Click to expand...

Expanding that logic, a vote for the winning party is equally wasted if the winner gained a comfortable majority over all competitors.

Say, if the winner got 50,000 votes, the runner-up got 35,000, and candidates for smaller parties all got under 5,000 - it does not really matter if your personal vote is added to 50,000, 35,000, or 5,000. The outcome does not change.

The only kind of vote that makes a difference is a vote in a closely contested riding, cast either for the winner or for the runner-up.
 
Marcanadian said:
I've compiled a list of things Hudak wants to eliminate/cut/privatize and I'm sure I'm missing some:

30% tuition grant
Student loans for those who don't maintain a certain grade
100,000 public sector jobs
Almost all LRT projects in the province
LCBO
OLG
TVO
Ontario Power Authority
Ontario College of Trades
Drive Clean
Green Energy Act
Greenbelt
Healthy homes renovation tax credit
Click to expand...

Can't say I'm a fan of the Liberals or NDP but Hudak is going to destroy the middle class. I hope enough people vote "against" the PCs in their riding because of Hudak. This way we end up with a Liberal minority where spending will be kept in check, the PCs will boot Hudak as leader, and give us something fresh to look at in the next election.
 
I have a longtime NDP voter but I'm voting Green because I am totally turned off by Andrea Horwath's Fordesque populism and I like my local candidate, Tim Grant, and the Tories have no shot in Trinity-Spadina. If the Tories were in contention I'd vote strategically - Liberal in the 905 or NDP in Niagara Falls, London West, Kitchener-Waterloo or Oshawa.
 
Marcanadian said:
I've compiled a list of things Hudak wants to eliminate/cut/privatize and I'm sure I'm missing some:

30% tuition grant
Student loans for those who don't maintain a certain grade
100,000 public sector jobs
Almost all LRT projects in the province
LCBO
OLG
TVO
Ontario Power Authority
Ontario College of Trades
Drive Clean
Green Energy Act
Greenbelt
Healthy homes renovation tax credit
Click to expand...
Most of these items sound good to me and I hope a lot of other people.
 
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