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If the PCs could figure out that the vast majority of Ontarians do not want ultra-right policies which make Harper look like a progressive, they could win easily! If McGuinty was still running, I would likely vote for him considering the current dynamics. Last time I voted Green because of numerous reactionary and draconian policies he had put in over his tenure, more so than out of any anger for any scandal or tax increase. Have the Liberals made mistakes? Absolutely! However, are we better off compared to where we were in 2003 when Harris and Eves were still in power? ABSOLUTELY! Hudak is the second coming of Harris - with a vengeance, and he would be a disaster of epic proportions!

Saw on my Facebook an article in the Star about the need to throw McGuinty under the bus. I haven't read it yet, but it sounds about right. I believe McGuinty made the right choice to step down, and the Liberals made the right choice to give the leadership to Wynne. Their campaign message needs to be a sandwich which stresses that we are better off than we were under Harris/Eves, that they can and will do better - and are in the process of achieving this, and close off that we are better off than we were under Harris/Eves.
 
nfitz said:
No, that's not how it works. That's how the old PST and the old MST worked, but not the GST and HST. That's why we replaced the MST with GST and then the GST/PST with the HST.

If you buy a widget, you pay 13% tax on the cost of the widget. The vendor collects the 13% tax, subtracts any HST he has paid (on any of his expenses ... gasoline, parts, repairs, the purchase of widgets from the wholesaler - these are called input tax credits), and only sends the DIFFERENCE to the government.
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I'm glad you responded to that...I was about to say the same thing. You'd think that someone as adamant about hating something as is the admiral would actually look into it a bit better.
 
Electrify said:
If the PCs could figure out that the vast majority of Ontarians do not want ultra-right policies which make Harper look like a progressive, they could win easily! If McGuinty was still running, I would likely vote for him considering the current dynamics. Last time I voted Green because of numerous reactionary and draconian policies he had put in over his tenure, more so than out of any anger for any scandal or tax increase. Have the Liberals made mistakes? Absolutely! However, are we better off compared to where we were in 2003 when Harris and Eves were still in power? ABSOLUTELY! Hudak is the second coming of Harris - with a vengeance, and he would be a disaster of epic proportions!

Saw on my Facebook an article in the Star about the need to throw McGuinty under the bus. I haven't read it yet, but it sounds about right. I believe McGuinty made the right choice to step down, and the Liberals made the right choice to give the leadership to Wynne. Their campaign message needs to be a sandwich which stresses that we are better off than we were under Harris/Eves, that they can and will do better - and are in the process of achieving this, and close off that we are better off than we were under Harris/Eves.
Click to expand...

But the problem is we are not better off. The debt has doubled. The unemployment rate in Ontario is lower than the national average, Ontario became a have-not province. There is much more lack of confidence in the governing Party than when Eeves was defeated in 2003. The Health tax (premium) was the largest tax increase in history* and came in at the same time that Vision Care and Chiropractor Services were de-listed.

* - Having recently done my taxes, I can say the increase was 11.4% for me and 23.5% for my wife.
 
nfitz said:
No, that's not how it works. That's how the old PST and the old MST worked, but not the GST and HST. That's why we replaced the MST with GST and then the GST/PST with the HST.

If you buy a widget, you pay 13% tax on the cost of the widget. The vendor collects the 13% tax, subtracts any HST he has paid (on any of his expenses ... gasoline, parts, repairs, the purchase of widgets from the wholesaler - these are called input tax credits), and only sends the DIFFERENCE to the government.
Click to expand...
Sorry to distract onto to the HST, I do understand how the input tax credits are supposed to work. I am more thinking of the multple levels of taxes outside of the HST, such as the govt collecting both corporate income tax and personal income tax on the same item.

Anyway, I'm at risk of thread hijacking here, something I detest, so no more on this, beyond to say that I never said taxes are bad. Now, back to the election....
 
BurlOak said:
The Health tax (premium) was the largest tax increase in history* and came in at the same time that Vision Care and Chiropractor Services were de-listed.
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Yeah, that's right, it was a bigger tax increase than the introduction of the 95% tax bracket in the UK. #fail

BurlOak said:
* - Having recently done my taxes, I can say the increase was 11.4% for me and 23.5% for my wife.
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It's not a percentage. It's a sum. 11.4% of what? Of your income? I don't believe it.
 
nfitz said:
Yeah, that's right, it was a bigger tax increase than the introduction of the 95% tax bracket in the UK. #fail
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I thought the title of this thread had "Ontario".

nfitz said:
It's not a percentage. It's a sum. 11.4% of what? Of your income? I don't believe it.
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Health Tax / Ontario Tax Before Health Tax * 100 = % increase in tax due to Health tax.
 
Palma said:
She was part of the re-election campaign.
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There's never been any evidence that she had any involvement in cancelling the plants, or had any knowledge, other than that the decision had been made.

Palma said:
And all the lies from every liberal who stated they did not know who actually cancelled the plants at the beginning and what the costs were.
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I thought it was quite plain to everyone duing the investigation that those who cancelled the plants, didn't know the full costs of cancelling the plants when they did it.

Hudak and Horwarth also promised to cancel during the last last election. How much did they think it was going to cost?
 
BurlOak said:
I thought the title of this thread had "Ontario".
Click to expand...


BurlOak said:
Health Tax / Ontario Tax Before Health Tax * 100 = % increase in tax due to Health tax.
Click to expand...

Oh, it can't be the biggest increase ever. The maximum increase for anyone is only $900 (I say without checking). The 1% increase in the budget yesterday raised taxes ... what did they say ... an average of $5,000 or so for those in the top tax bracket? As if the top tax bracket has never had an increase before ....

Hang on ... they put the health tax in place, because the Tories cut taxes too much, and then lied about the province not having a deficit during the 2003 election. My taxes after the Health Tax were still lower than before the Tories cut the taxes in the first place.

Your cherry-picking.

Given how low Ontario income taxes are, even with the health tax, compared to what they were previously, I don't really see the point whining about this.
 
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nfitz said:
Given how low Ontario income taxes are, even with the health tax, compared to what they were previously, I don't really see the point whining about this.
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Yeah seriously. The 30% Tory income tax cut in the 1990s was far more far-reaching and significant than McGuinty's health tax. The CSR fundamentally changed the province and one lesson of that experience is tax cuts aren't free and do have consequences.
 
StatGeek said:
I am hearing a lot of normally left group angry that Horwath called this election. People thought the budget was good and she opening the door for a potential Hudak win. I also heard from strategist that it makes little sense for Horwath to call the election now because the angry errrr gas plants voters are probably going to vote PC. If she wanted to get some of that vote she should have called it last year, now she will just get blamed for an early election as most just wonder "You waited this long, why not just wait the entire term". As left-wing voters will probably side with liberal thinking it's a safer bet to defeat Hudak and not liking the NDP political move after a good left-wing budget.
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Me too. Among my acquaintances I'd say almost all of my left-wing and progressive friends, traditional NDP supporters, are upset about the call. With her reactionary anti-tax stance, Horwath seems to be campaigning to the right of the Liberals and has no vision for the province at all. The only people I know defending it are people who work for the NDP in some capacity!

It could be possible that I'm misreading opinion outside Toronto. It seems the strategists are banking on the success of their stream of by-election victories in southwestern Ontario and for some more seats to be picked up in the North.

However I think more likely the race is going to be quickly seen as between two visions: the Liberals calling for public investments and the Tories getting most of the anti-tax, anti-"big government", get the corrupt Liberals out vote.

I think Tom Walkom captures the situation well:

http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp..._much_by_forcing_ontario_election_walkom.html
 
I want to focus my contribution to the discussion on Toronto since this is a forum on Toronto. The problem with the direction of Wynne is that she is pushing a tax and spend agenda (I'm not using hyperbole she is literally taxing more, spending more, AND taking on more debt all at the same time) at a time when no one else in Canada is doing this. Actually, the federal government's fiscal restraint gives us room for tax and spend but the problem is that Ontario is the only province to take the bait. So here's the problem, Toronto is in Ontario. The result is that if you are a business, even a business headquartered in Toronto, where are you going to grow in the future? The answer is not in Ontario and not in Toronto. Almost every one of Wynne's major platform points disadvantages Toronto within Canada as a jurisdiction for economic growth. There is nothing wrong with an Ontario Pension plan but it disadvantages growth here because no one else in the country is doing it. Why employ someone here when it costs more? Why move here when your disposable income is lower because of a pension play you may never see and which might pay you something in 30 years?

The future of Toronto envisioned in the budget presented to Ontario this April is a kinder gentler Toronto that will not be the place where immigrants will move to, will not be the place where young Canadians will move to, and will not be the place where future growth and economic activity in the country will be centred. To put it in terms meaningful to this forum = less new skyscrapers and no super tall buildings and no need for an extensive transit network expansion.
 
TrickyRicky said:
I want to focus my contribution to the discussion on Toronto since this is a forum on Toronto. The problem with the direction of Wynne is that she is pushing a tax and spend agenda (I'm not using hyperbole she is literally taxing more, spending more, AND taking on more debt all at the same time) at a time when no one else in Canada is doing this. Actually, the federal government's fiscal restraint gives us room for tax and spend but the problem is that Ontario is the only province to take the bait. So here's the problem, Toronto is in Ontario. The result is that if you are a business, even a business headquartered in Toronto, where are you going to grow in the future? The answer is not in Ontario and not in Toronto. Almost every one of Wynne's major platform points disadvantages Toronto within Canada as a jurisdiction for economic growth. There is nothing wrong with an Ontario Pension plan but it disadvantages growth here because no one else in the country is doing it. Why employ someone here when it costs more? Why move here when your disposable income is lower because of a pension play you may never see and which might pay you something in 30 years?

The future of Toronto envisioned in the budget presented to Ontario this April is a kinder gentler Toronto that will not be the place where immigrants will move to, will not be the place where young Canadians will move to, and will not be the place where future growth and economic activity in the country will be centred. To put it in terms meaningful to this forum = less new skyscrapers and no super tall buildings and no need for an extensive transit network expansion.
Click to expand...
This is pretty good.
 
TrickyRicky said:
The future of Toronto envisioned in the budget presented to Ontario this April is a kinder gentler Toronto that will not be the place where immigrants will move to, will not be the place where young Canadians will move to, and will not be the place where future growth and economic activity in the country will be centred. To put it in terms meaningful to this forum = less new skyscrapers and no super tall buildings and no need for an extensive transit network expansion.
Click to expand...

Hey, I'll take "kinder, gentler" over McMansion-mentality Ford-voting immigrants and skyscraper/supertall-obsessed twerps and dorks anyday...
 
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