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Liberals should have lost in 07, 11, 14 - but somehow they won. Maybe showing panic and switching leaders is not the best strategy.
Also, they may be better off losing the next election, instead of risking putting another leader in who may just lose as well.
Then letting the PC's take the blame for the layoffs and hardships involved in cleaning up the mess that was left them.
Then try fresh in 2022 with the argument that the PC's could not return a booming and prosperous economy.
Yeah - at this point their best bet is to muddle through on momentum and try to hold the Tories to a minority government. Then they can spend two years selecting a new leader and Febreezing their reputation and come back swinging. No point bringing in a new leader if defeat is inevitable.
 
I'm a bit stunned that she seemingly lacks the awareness of what this will do to her party if she remains leader. Surely there must be some kind of mutiny in the works behind the scenes...

She must've been emboldened by the previous election where the Liberals were predicted to lose but ended up winning a majority. But Patrick Brown isn't Michael Keaton — I mean, Tim Hudak.

While Brown appears to be inexperienced and prone to error, he's not scary like Tim Hudak was. It was that fear that prompted NDPers and even some Conservatives to plug their nose and vote for Wynne.

If she doesn't step down, we can only hope for a Conservative minority while the Liberals choose another leader.
 
This is the problem. The NDP has become a joke under Andreas leadership. She stands for nothing and has no real plan or policies except for some very minor pocket book issues. The Liberals won last time for their infrastructure plan and the fear of Hudak. Brown is inexperienced but maybe given a chance for majority. By 2018, Ontarians will be sick of Liberals. The Liberals may be banished in 2018 unless things change. All the taxes and fees are turning anyone outside Toronto against them. Unless they deliver substantially for 905 area they are toast. I think both Wynne and Horwath need to go. Both parties need to clean house.

Unless Brown screws up big time, he will easily win in 2018. The less he says the better. Focus on economy and offer a tax break on something and he'll win in a landslide.
 
If Wynne and the Liberals had any sort of pragmatic sense, cap-and-trade would be deferred.

Unfortunately, often times these plans have been drafted by bureaucrats and are largely based on ideology rather than common sense. Hence we are left with disastrous schemes like the Green Energy Policy that have massive side effects when faced with real-world situations.

Competitive costs will be a major concern in 2017 with changes to the energy sector and new cap-and-trade system in place
There will be challenges and opportunities in the new year

Waterloo Chronicle
By Ian McLean
The past year was generally positive for Waterloo Region and southwestern Ontario.

[...]

The Waterloo Economic Development Corporation has completed their inaugural year of operation in 2016 and provided a strong foundation for future success in attracting new business into the region.

We also continue to draw trade delegations from across the globe interested in partnering with local businesses or establishing their own operations here.

In terms of challenges, energy prices will remain high on the agenda for businesses in Waterloo Region and across Ontario throughout 2017.

The provincial cap-and-trade program, scheduled for Jan. 1, 2017 implementation, adds additional energy costs for businesses beyond the 380 per cent electricity increases over the past 12 years.


Our Chamber, along with 19 others across the province, recently requested a deferral of implementing cap-and-trade to allow for a complete economic impact analysis of the program, particularly on resource-based sectors such as mining and forestry, and manufacturing.


Also, since the Trump administration and a vast majority of states in the Great Lakes region seem unlikely to participate in any similar programs, Ontario businesses could be facing a significant competitive disadvantage.


However, all factors considered, the upcoming year should provide continued population and economic growth across Waterloo Region.

Our challenge remains the efficient management of these trends.

•••

Ian McLean is president and CEO of the Greater K-W Chamber of Commerce.

http://www.waterloochronicle.ca/opi...changes-to-the-energy-sector-and-new-cap-and/

Toronto company opening U.S. plant because of rising Ontario electricity rates
CEO of Leland Industries Byron Nelson says the company will not invest in Ontario any more because ‘the costs are just out of sight.’

By The Canadian Press
Tues., Dec. 20, 2016

A Toronto-based manufacturer of fasteners says it is opening its new manufacturing facility in the United States because rising energy costs have made Ontario uncompetitive for investment.

Leland Industries employs about 220 people at its plants in Toronto and Waterloo, Ont., and founder and CEO Byron Nelson says those workers will be protected.

But Nelson says Leland’s business is increasing and expanding and Ontario’s high electricity costs make it hard for the company to compete on a global scale.

Nelson anticipates Ontario’s new cap-and-trade system, which comes into effect in January, will cause electricity and natural gas costs to rise even higher.

Nelson says Leland will not invest in Ontario any more because “the costs are just out of sight.”

And he says the company plans a major expansion in production capacity in Illinois.

“This is good news for our company, but bad news for Ontario,” Nelson said Tuesday.

“We’ve prided ourselves that a Canadian manufacturer with the right people, processes, and technologies, can compete with anyone in the world,” he said. “But, we can no longer compete with the escalating energy costs we are seeing here in Ontario.”

Jocelyn Williams Bamford — vice president of Automatic Coating Limited and spokeswoman for the Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers in Ontario — said Leland is one of many smaller and medium-sized Ontario-based manufacturers that are looking to grow and seriously considering investing outside of Ontario.

“Ontario’s energy costs are rising so quickly many manufacturers are reassessing whether it makes sense to expand production in this province,” she said Tuesday in a statement.

Bamford said manufacturers have become more competitive and have been able to reduce emissions at the same time because they have invested in new technologies.

“Higher energy costs leave us less money for investment. And, if manufacturers can’t invest in Ontario, it’s not good for the economy or for jobs in this province. Ultimately, it’s not good for the environment either,” she said.

Nelson said Ontario has already lost a lot of manufacturers and will lose more because those in government “just do not understand.”

Ontario Economic Development and Growth Minister Brad Duguid said in an email that the government recognizes that it has more work to do, “especially when it comes to controlling the costs related to upgrading our energy infrastructure.”

Duguid also noted that the government will be lowering electricity costs for small and medium sized businesses by eight per cent starting Jan. 1, but Bamford said that “won’t come close to offsetting the energy and transportation cost increases that lie in store for smaller manufacturers across Ontario.”

https://www.thestar.com/business/20...ause-of-rising-ontario-electricity-rates.html
 
If there were any chance of being free of all of our self-appointed political Mommies forcibly keeping us in diapers after the next election, I'd actually care about this conversation. But it's the senior civil servants who are the real self-appointed Mommies who are sure they know what's good for us better than we do, and whoever gets elected must obey the senior civil servants they inherit, so elections are just rearranging the deck chairs. Our elected officials have been no more than celebrity Survivor contestants for the past 20 years. Until those who still have a future get rid of the hidebound ideologues who wield the real power in both Ontario and Canada (and firmly have Toronto's bits between their teeth), even paying attention to E!Now-style coverage of elected officials is no different from watching reality TV: it's pure entertainment with no substance.
 
If there were any chance of being free of all of our self-appointed political Mommies forcibly keeping us in diapers after the next election, I'd actually care about this conversation. .
For a person who says s/he does not care about this conversation you seem to be quite engaged (enraged?) about it. The question was "Can Premier Wynn win in 2018?" and the answer is "yes". Though the Liberals are both tired and quite sloppy, the opposition parties have many flaws too and Patrick Brown seems to have a real intra-party battle on his hands.
 
Patrick Brown won the leadership position over Christine Elliot (who could have headed a Red Tory government) by campaigning alongside the Social Conservatives.

Now he's trying to ditch them in order to pivot to the center and they're not happy. Time will tell if he'll be able to shut them up in time for the election.
 
A second, equally significant side effect of high hydro prices is that startups and new businesses are hit in their most vulnerable phase- when they're either starting up or trying to expand.

So- medium and large companies are choosing to expand elsewhere, and small businesses are being strangled even before they can establish themselves. What's left?

Ontario business owners say high electricity rates are a threat to their survival
Independent business group says energy prices are the number one issue for members

Tor Krueger has big plans for Udder Way Artisan Cheese Co., which sells handmade goat cheese in Stoney Creek, Ont.

But crushing hydro bills are hurting the artisan cheese maker’s plans to modernize his facility so he can get federal certification and sell his cheeses across the country.

“After payroll, hydro is consistently one of my top three operating expenses,” Mr. Krueger said.

Hydro One charges him upward of $2,000 a month, and “I don’t have any equipment in here that I would say is drawing a lot of power.”

Other small and medium-sized businesses (SMBs) in Ontario, such as restaurants Berkeley North of Hamilton and Fred’s Not Here of Toronto, are struggling to pay their hefty hydro bills.

“That right now is the No. 1 issue for our members,” says Plamen Petkov of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB), which has 42,000 members in Ontario.

tor1.jpg

Tor Krueger of Udder Way Artisan Cheese Co., in Stoney Creek, Ont., is struggling with high electricity prices.

Udder Way Artisan Cheese Co.

A crescendo of consumer anger prompted the provincial government to offer an eight-per-cent rebate on hydro bills for residential households and small businesses beginning Jan. 1. The discount will cost the treasury $1-billion a year and save the average household $130 a year.

Premier Kathleen Wynne apologized last month for high electricity bills that have forced some residents to choose between paying for hydro, food or rent.

The CFIB says hydro costs became a bigger issue for SMBs after mandatory smart meters were introduced six years ago, charging time-of-use prices. Unlike households, many SMBs open during regular business hours and have to pay peak rates for electricity that are more than twice as much as off-peak rates.

According to the Ontario Energy Board, on-peak rates have climbed 81 per cent to 18 cents per kilowatt-hour since November, 2010, when the smart meter program began.

Those rates also include the global adjustment for the province’s energy conservation programs, which covers the difference between the market price of electricity and the guaranteed contract prices paid to electricity generators.

In a 2015 report, Ontario’s auditor general said the global adjustment cost consumers $37-billion from 2006 to 2014, and will cost another $133-billion from 2015 to 2032.

The audit also concluded consumers will have to pay $9.2-billion more for renewable energy projects over the 20-year contract terms under the government’s guaranteed-price renewable program for wind, solar and biomass than under the previous program.

Other factors behind high hydro bills include the debt retirement charge for the remaining debt of the former Ontario Hydro, as well as the delivery charge for distribution and transmission of electricity.

The delivery fee alone is nearly $720 a month for Udder Way Artisan Cheese, and $990 a month for Fred’s Not Here steakhouse, representing one-third of the companies’ hydro bills.

hydrobill-torCROP3.jpg

Tor Krueger’s bill for one month of hydro at his cheese business is over $2,000

Owners have tried all sorts of ways to conserve energy – and have had to make tough business decisions.

Matt Webber, who opened Berkeley North in Hamilton on Sept. 26, had budgeted $500 a month in his business plan for hydro. But his utility bill is more than twice as high even though he built his new restaurant with energy-efficient features such as induction cooking and LED lighting.

“I’m not using anything that’s old and I’m still dealing with prices like this,” Mr. Webber said. “And at the same time I’m not open all day long.”

Mr. Webber has had to cut server shifts and adjust Berkeley North’s menu prices to make up for the extra $500 a month he must pay for hydro.

Fred’s Not Here owner Fred Luk switched to energy-efficient lighting at his downtown Toronto restaurant. In business since 1988, he’s taken other measures such as cutting back on refrigeration and turning off baseboard heaters when certain areas aren’t being used. He still gets a monthly hydro bill ranging from $3,000 to $5,000.


FredLuk-hydrobill-%282%29.jpg

Fred Luk’s hydro bill for his restaurant range from $3,000 to $5,000 a month.

Mr. Luk says by his own calculation his Toronto Hydro bill has increased more than 14 per cent a year since 2008. He compared prices for hydro in Quebec, where the electricity rate alone would be more than 50 per cent cheaper, which would reduce his annual costs by at least $13,000.

“We’re the ones getting socked with this high rate and a lot of us cannot survive,” said Mr. Luk, who hasn’t increased menu prices over concerns customers will choose to eat elsewhere.

Ontario Energy Minister Glenn Thibeault was not available for comment.

Ontario NDP energy critic Peter Tabuns says he doesn’t think the 8-per-cent rebate will make a dent since electricity prices are forecast to rise over the next few years. “I could say without hesitation that the decrease will be eaten up by the increases in the next four years,” he said.

The CFIB has urged the energy minister to eliminate the time-of-use rates for small businesses and replace that with a lower rate for the first 3,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ut-ontario-electricityprices/article33344417/
 
I would be fine with a PC minority government. My riding could easily flip.
 
We need to let another party govern in a minority role. Time to take a break from the Liberals.
If this Liberal government does not deserve to be completely kicked out of government, I don't know which would. Aside from maybe McGuinty (in 2011), Rae (in 1995), I can't think of any government that deserves a major thrashing than this one. I want them reduced to 2 seats - similar to what happened to Mulroney.
 

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