[steveintoronto]

If I were a member who agreed with the platform as is, I'd be quite upset to see a newcomer trying to dismantle it piece by piece.

But that's exactly the point. Are you entrusting someone with your vote to do what's right, or voting for them to follow prearranged dogma?

If it's the dogma, then you're voting for an administrator, not a leader.

Clarification: I stated re Caroline: "So far, Daddy she isn't." Not in terms of doing everything he did, or thinking the same, but in being her own person. Mulroney Sr was a lot of things, not all of them good, but he was his own person.

Look at history, and all the dynamic leaders many nations have had. Mind you, they were the product of their times...but perhaps the milquetoast we're getting are the product of these times too? You get the government you deserve.

 

[SunriseChampion]

You get the government you deserve.

With our electoral system we get the government 35% of voters who bothered voting deserve.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Nope, all of them deserve, mostly the ones who didn't vote. For democracy to be effective, it's contingent on the *demos* to vote.

 

[SunriseChampion]

True, the non-voters deserve it the most.
Not having a real voice precludes me from deserving any outcome. (I ain't the only one either).

 

[WislaHD]

Ha! Anyone claiming that we have it as bad as Greece is either lying or extremely uninformed. Greece, my eye!

Fun fact. The GDP of Toronto is 150% that of the whole country of Greece.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Yeah, now it is. In 2008, however......and if they had kept on their previous trajectory of growth, or even leveled off instead of dropping off a cliff. Quite the mess.

 

[steveintoronto]

QUEEN'S PARK
PC candidate Rod Phillips withdraws from leadership race to back Caroline Mulroney

“Caroline and I — like many of our party’s candidates across Ontario — represent a new generation of inclusive and accountable leadership for the Progressive Conservative party,” Phillips said Sunday.

• Caroline Mulroney will officially join PC race Monday, source says

I suspect the fix has been in for Phillips for at least a week, and that explains Post Media being so favourable to Mulroney.

The Stun will digress from the rest of Post, most likely, and back Doug Loser.

 

[rbt]

Yeah, now it is. In 2008, however......and if they had kept on their previous trajectory of growth, or even leveled off instead of dropping off a cliff. Quite the mess.

Of course, that previous trajectory wasn't exactly an honest one built on a solid foundation. Those 25%/annum growth years from 2002 through ~2009 were unusual.

If you draw a straight line from 2002 to today, it's actually pretty close to historical growth rates from the previous 30 years.

https://tradingeconomics.com/greece/gdp Hit "Max" button for the full chart.

 

[SunriseChampion]

True word.

 

[MetroMan]

QUEEN'S PARK
PC candidate Rod Phillips withdraws from leadership race to back Caroline Mulroney

“Caroline and I — like many of our party’s candidates across Ontario — represent a new generation of inclusive and accountable leadership for the Progressive Conservative party,” Phillips said Sunday.

• Caroline Mulroney will officially join PC race Monday, source says

I suspect the fix has been in for Phillips for at least a week, and that explains Post Media being so favourable to Mulroney.

The Stun will digress from the rest of Post, most likely, and back Doug Loser.

Mulroney isn’t the secret weapon that many (including me) thought she’s going to be. I’m hearing from some Liberal quarters that she’s the opponent they’re hoping for.

My guess is that they have a strategy to deal with her inexperience and her untested skills debating and campaigning. In the middle of this chaos, we seem to have forgotten that Wynne is a master debater and campaigner who’s defied predictions of her demise several times before.

 

[christiesplits]

Mulroney isn’t the secret weapon that many (including me) thought she’s going to be. I’m hearing from some Liberal quarters that she’s the opponent they’re hoping for.

My guess is that they have a strategy to deal with her inexperience and her untested skills debating and campaigning. In the middle of this chaos, we seem to have forgotten that Wynne is a master debater and campaigner who’s defied predictions of her demise several times before.

I've seen some of Mulroney's interviews and she doesn't come off nearly as sharp or media trained as Elliot. There is so little time to be stage managed or train for debates.

 

[John_Dee]

I’m hearing from some Liberal quarters that she’s the opponent they’re hoping for.

Keep in mind that Hillary Clinton (and the brain trust she surrounded herself with) wanted Donald Trump as an opponent, figuring he'd be the easiest person to beat. Didn't quite work out that way.

I'm wondering if Ford will have the sheer hypocritical gall to rail against Mulroney's background, i.e. being part of an elitist political dynasty, conveniently ignoring (of course) that the exact same critique could be lodged against him.

 

[PinkLucy]

I never saw the big deal about Mulroney other than as the PC's response to Justin Trudeau.

 

[OneCity]

Keep in mind that Hillary Clinton (and the brain trust she surrounded herself with) wanted Donald Trump as an opponent, figuring he'd be the easiest person to beat. Didn't quite work out that way.

I'm wondering if Ford will have the sheer hypocritical gall to rail against Mulroney's background, i.e. being part of an elitist political dynasty, conveniently ignoring (of course) that the exact same critique could be lodged against him.

Ford is after that popular anti "establishment" vote and the question is how big is it going to be currently in Ontario? I tend to think its larger than most expect. In addition to the usual angst of Liberal scandals and waste Ontario has continuously lost massive chunks of the manufacturing sector over the last decade. The people that were affected are prime targets to receive some form of representation for votes. When enough people are left behind in a democracy the "FU" vote a very viable option. Until opposing parties cross their own comfort zones and reach out to a larger base, this will continue to surge. For many of these voters its not even about Left or Right any more, its about having minimal representation in the current system due to both political parties representing lobbyist interests or todays growing reality of drawing dividing lines in identity politics. Unlike the narrative these types don't actually create the divides, they profit off the divide that was already created. Should be very interesting to watch as he's going to be a viable candidate for this reason.

 

[steveintoronto]

Mulroney isn’t the secret weapon that many (including me) thought she’s going to be. I’m hearing from some Liberal quarters that she’s the opponent they’re hoping for.

My guess is that they have a strategy to deal with her inexperience and her untested skills debating and campaigning. In the middle of this chaos, we seem to have forgotten that Wynne is a master debater and campaigner who’s defied predictions of her demise several times before.

This may or may not be true, but I question how much the 'Great Unwashed' will be swayed by debates? The present electorate zeitgeist, as expressed by many polls, is that given someone 'they could vote for' other than Wynne, short of being a Ford standard, they'd vote for them.

Wynne remains the most unpopular premier in Canada. All her excellent debating skills can't seem to budge the poll results. The Ont-Lib's fortunes seem to be increasing in the polls, but that's reactive, not logical since Wynne's polling remains rock bottom.

It is a point that will be discussed a lot in the press in the next few months. A lot rests on her ostensible announcement today. She'd better be good! And as much as she is noted for being 'quiet and methodical'...she'd best show some fire.