sixrings
Senior Member
I think MetroMan just doesn't like Wynne. That doesn't mean she can't win an election.
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- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
MetroMan
Senior Member
That's not true. I like her policies and at first, I thought that she was a fresh face for the province. I was thrilled to have a female premier. Having one who is gay was a bonus which I think advances equal rights and tolerance for diversity in Ontario and Canada.
But I've seen so much hatred towards her, even amongst life long Liberals. I've lost my appreciation for her too. I think that her lack of charisma and inability to connect with people plays a role. A leader should possess both of those qualities. Given her unpopularity, I don't think that she can win. I want Liberal policies to continue so I feel that replacing her would be the best chance.
Northern Light
Superstar
I can't say I've seen hatred.......or felt it.
As someone who is non-partisan, and not overly ideological in the conventional sense, I'd like to think I'm the voter she should be after and can achieve.
My disappointment has been three-fold.
First, that she made very limited promises in the Liberal leadership race............one key one was to work towards universal pharmacare...........she has done exactly nothing towards this, and it has not gone unnoticed.
Its one thing when you make 100 promises to break one; but when you make 3 or 4............you really need to keep all of them.
Second, she went expressly against standing Liberal policy, past public proclamations, including her own, in moving to privatize Hydro One.....which makes no sense to me, seeing as it is a natural monopoly.
Third, she's been on the wrong side of a series of issues where she's ultimately flip-flopped (campaign finance reform chief among them).
Doing the right thing only after being brow beaten and shamed into it is far from ideal and allows little room for any credit for having done, ultimately, something quite good. It really brings the political judgement into question.
I thought where she started out: Strategic, if large investments in public infrastructure, particularly transit, moving towards pharmacare, slowly, a modest expansion of retirement security.....
Balanced, thoughtful, supportable.
Where she is........having more or less delivered one of those (retirement enhancement) ; made no move towards another (pharmacare), and been profoundly slow, and slower than she and her gov't have repeatedly promised on transit.
While defending the indefensible in terms of campaign finance.............
Leaves one less than enamored.
That doesn't having anything to do w/her speech style. Its her substance style that's troublesome.
Her only saving grace.........Horvath has not shown any love for principle.............and Brown, is at best, unproven; and at worst, equally prone to pandering over principle.
Sigh.
We can and should expect better.
animatronic
Senior Member
Current prediction for 2018: Wynne sees the writing on the wall and nopes out in late 2017. The Libs hold a half-hearted leadership race and vote in a hapless but well-meaning female MPP to lead the party into the election (aka the "glass cliff" syndrome). Horvath continues to be invisible.
Brown takes his lesson from the sloppy by-election and shuffles his internal team, bolstered by repatriated federal back room Tories (who themselves are mostly ex-provincial Tories). Kouvalis the Hutt somehow slimes his way into the conservative cave. Brown runs a disciplined white bread campaign and bland wins a small majority.
Doug Ford is allowed to run after proving he can raise $250k for the party. He takes an Etobicoke seat by legally changing his middle name to Rob and demands the environment portfolio so he can ensure that his Deco clients avoid further pollution fines.
Brown takes his lesson from the sloppy by-election and shuffles his internal team, bolstered by repatriated federal back room Tories (who themselves are mostly ex-provincial Tories). Kouvalis the Hutt somehow slimes his way into the conservative cave. Brown runs a disciplined white bread campaign and bland wins a small majority.
Doug Ford is allowed to run after proving he can raise $250k for the party. He takes an Etobicoke seat by legally changing his middle name to Rob and demands the environment portfolio so he can ensure that his Deco clients avoid further pollution fines.
JLG
New Member
I think that she rely on a lot of low information voters and maybe get a minority...not that I'm hoping that will happen!!!
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The race is not over yet for the Ontario Liberals. Still have a couple of years before the finish line.
sixrings
Senior Member
As long as Tory is mayor I'll vote liberal
MisterF
Senior Member
After enduring Toronto's hopelessly uncoordinated and inadequate transit system this weekend I'll almost definitely be voting for whoever has the best transit plan.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
I think one of the themes where Wynne is vulnerable is in the general sense that her and the previous Liberal government have driven up costs to prohibitive levels. At first these costs were targeted at a few unlucky groups like small businesses; however, with each policy move it just keeps impacting more and more of the population. From energy policy, to pension reform, to public sector contracts, to WSIB legislation the net result has been a huge increase in costs to households and businesses. This same general sense is why David Miller had zero chance of re-election in this city and some just hated the man while others couldn't understand why.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about regarding costs keep in mind I'm not even talking about taxation, I'm talking about costs driven by legislation. Pity the poor tradesman who now has to pay WSIB rates so high (I'm talking about above 10% of total income) there is no more point. Pity the small business owner who has seen on-peak hydro rates climb to levels where she is on the fence about just shutting down her operations, pity the young person who can't find work because the costs associated with his labour (I'm talking about costs not the salary or wage itself which on it's own his employer would be happy to pay) have risen so dramatically.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about regarding costs keep in mind I'm not even talking about taxation, I'm talking about costs driven by legislation. Pity the poor tradesman who now has to pay WSIB rates so high (I'm talking about above 10% of total income) there is no more point. Pity the small business owner who has seen on-peak hydro rates climb to levels where she is on the fence about just shutting down her operations, pity the young person who can't find work because the costs associated with his labour (I'm talking about costs not the salary or wage itself which on it's own his employer would be happy to pay) have risen so dramatically.
Northern Light
Superstar
I think there is great deal in what you've said that is objectively correct and/or broadly supportable.
However, I think the bigger problem for Wynne, tied to this, is the lack of obviously off-sets.
Current retirees, or those due to retire shortly will not see the benefits of the CPP expansion.
GO transit costs have grown faster than inflation, but service levels, for most commuters, have not. The notable exception of moving to 30m off-peak service on Lakeshore is now getting old, while fare increases above inflation continue.
Hydro rate hikes might have been directly trade-able to many Ontarians when coal was shut down and air quality alerts almost completely evaporated in southern Ontario.
But again, the rates hikes continue.........and coal is an increasingly distant memory along w/smog days.
While I have sympathy for the small business cases described above, it needs to be said, corporate tax rates for small business are verging on non-existent (4.5% provincially, as compared with a full corp. tax rate of 14% not so many years ago).
What government gives with one hand, it often takes back with another. That's not unto itself a bad thing (or a good one) just basic math.
The concern for Wynne should be..........when people go to do 'the math'............where is the offset for those added hydro costs, WSIB rates, higher lic. plate renewal fees, or above inflation go hikes?
I have to admit, I'm broadly hard-pressed to name them.
And I'm among the most intent political observers.
Which begs the question what the broader electorate is noticing.
Rufus8
Active Member
If we had a functioning judicial system Wynne and McGuinty would be in handcuffs awaiting a swift and transparent trial. Not gonna happen. The Ontario Liberal Party is a criminal conspiracy. They are not geared to public service their one and only goal is to line the pockets of their paymasters. The general public are completely bamboozled by the goings on. If Horwath promised to undo the Hydro One sale, NOT repurchase stocks, I would vote for her in a minute. It was clearly a behind the scenes maneuver to plunder the province's assets. Why are there no legal challenges to the corruption of the Ontario Liberal government? When are we going to return to some level of rational governance?
jje1000
Senior Member
Any thoughts on today's Throne Speech?
Northern Light
Superstar
She had to tackle the hydro issue.
From a policy wonk perspective, I don't think its the right answer (removing provincial HST through a rebate, plus rural distribution subsidies). Its cumbersome, rewards higher-energy users more etc etc.
However, from a political point of view, its quick (comes in January 2017), people will see it on their bills, its an understandable choice.
It also happens to mirror the NDP promise, which undermines them a tad. Politically astute.
***
The suggestion that will cut wait times for medical specialists is a bit rich, considering after doing just that during the early McGuinty years they've allowed waits times to balloon.
MRIs, at one point, were down to about a 55 day wait for the least-urgent cases; they are now up near 100 again. Not strictly a case of more machines either, though some are needed; its been a political decision not to fund the operating hours.
They may be able to cut waits a bit, but there is quite a backlog, can they make enough of a difference for people to 'feel' it, between now and fall 2018? An open question.
***
Childcare expansion is a swell promise; however, even the promise suggests spaces will be ramped up over, I believe it was 4 years.
That means the political or 'felt' impact will, at best, be 1/2 complete in time for the next election. That's a gamble, politically.
***
I previously outlined some of things I think they need to address.
They need to boost incomes, particularly at the lower, and lower-middle end of the income spectrum. That means minimum wage and social assistance.
Its a separate debate at to how much those numbers need to move, but it has to be enough that people 'feel' better off.
I also think they have to deliver on new transit service (at a level that not only throughly pleases the transit user, but eases up on car traffic some).
For me those stand out as the two big omissions.
Palma
Senior Member
hydro rates will be lowered (HST coming off) until after the election. There will be the regular and way above inflation yearly increases which will gives the government back their money they lost by the forgone taking HST never mind the new cap and trade charges consumers will be faced with for the "change in climate" story
http://yournewswire.com/paris-stunned-as-scientists-debunk-climate-change-hysteria/
An international team of scientists have stunned attendees at the UN’s climate change conference in Paris recently by debunking claims that global warming is man-made.
Dubbed “Day of Examining the Data,” the conference featured numerous presentations, each one debunking multiple elements of theincreasingly discredited anthropogenic (man-made) global-warming theory (AGW). From explaining the myriad benefits of carbon dioxide to the environment and mankind to highlighting the ongoing 19-year pause in warming, no intellectually honest attendee could have left the summit still believing the “climate” hysteria pushed by various governments and international outfits. Indeed, practically every fear-mongering narrative pushed at the nearby UN climate summit was mercilessly debunked with facts, data, logic, and common sense. Later in the day, the film Climate Hustle brutally exposing the climate alarmism premiered at a nearby cinema in Paris, earning nothing but profuse praise from attendees.
Among the scientists speaking at the realist summit were Dr. Robert Carter, former chief of the School of Earth Sciences at James Cook University. “Global warming is not happening,” he explained, even noting that long-term cooling was predicted. Carter’s presentation was especially fascinating because it totally shredded the outlandish notion that CO2 — exhaled by humans and critical to life — is “carbon pollution” in need of regulation. In fact, he said, even at current atmospheric concentrations, the Earth and the plants it supports are “starving” for more CO2. And in the past, CO2 concentrations were some 10 to 15 times higher. “Attempting to stop climate change is an exercise in utter futility,” he added, noting in an interview with The New American that nobody would seriously consider trying to “stop” earthquakes or volcanic eruptions.
doady
Senior Member
Great, another climate change denier. Welcome to my Ignore List.