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Bernie sanders chipped away at hillarys support. Perhaps a lot of left leaning voters learned a lot from watching the states. If the ndp doesn't take a lead those votes might turn into anybody but ford liberal votes. My whole point is we don't know. But people who think they are on the winning side sure are acting pretty smug right now. I still haven't heard how cancelling a fully funded transit plan worth billions is somehow ok but cancelling the gas plant was a bridge too far.
 
Small Northern towns already lose much of their youth population. Kids go to school and many don’t come back.
That was the same thing I saw in New Brunswick. The place is essentially depopulating through neglect of economic innovation and not offering a viable future for its young adults.
But no roads or rail lines I hear someone shout..............AND? If the government expends 1B to allow a private company to extract 5B worth of 'stuff'; then collects a 5% royalty.....or 250M, the government, meaning all of us, is out 750M.
The 1B investment initiates company expenditures on operating costs, R&D and investments, corporate taxes, salaries and shareholder dividends. That's all money flowing back into the economy, in addition to 250M every year. Meanwhile, if you leave the resources in the ground, none of that happens.

And why does southern Ontario get government-funded railways, roads and infrastructure necessary for its business success?
I still haven't heard how cancelling a fully funded transit plan worth billions is somehow ok but cancelling the gas plant was a bridge too far.
You're going to have to look that up like anyone else does.
 
I still haven't heard how cancelling a fully funded transit plan worth billions is somehow ok but cancelling the gas plant was a bridge too far.

If these projects are fully funded then why aren't there shovels in the ground?

What's worse canceling a project or continuing to 'study' the shit out of it but never really get it going?
 
Bernie sanders chipped away at hillarys support. Perhaps a lot of left leaning voters learned a lot from watching the states. If the ndp doesn't take a lead those votes might turn into anybody but ford liberal votes. My whole point is we don't know. But people who think they are on the winning side sure are acting pretty smug right now. I still haven't heard how cancelling a fully funded transit plan worth billions is somehow ok but cancelling the gas plant was a bridge too far.


One was done after an election was fought about it.

The other was done during an election to win seats.


Both cost money but the motivation was different and the liberals never gave a clean answer around it and wear it as a corruption scandal.
 
Bernie sanders chipped away at hillarys support. Perhaps a lot of left leaning voters learned a lot from watching the states. If the ndp doesn't take a lead those votes might turn into anybody but ford liberal votes. My whole point is we don't know. But people who think they are on the winning side sure are acting pretty smug right now. I still haven't heard how cancelling a fully funded transit plan worth billions is somehow ok but cancelling the gas plant was a bridge too far.


Wynne is like Hillary though so it will be hard for people to rally around her .


I know none of my progressive friends like her at all, they are going for NDP or not going to vote.

Wynne cant count on some Justin Trudeau like millennial surge to save her I think
 
Again delayed spending seems the lesser of two evils vs canceling transit.

For the pc people who think that the liberals tax ustodeath but have no money for actual transit building, how are the PCs ever going to build campaigning on tax cuts and finding efficiencies?
 
.The 1B investment initiates company expenditures on operating costs, R&D and investments, corporate taxes, salaries and shareholder dividends. That's all money flowing back into the economy, in addition to 250M every year. Meanwhile, if you leave the resources in the ground, none of that happens.

The flowing of money for its own sake should not be the goal. Not in Northern Ontario, not in Southern Ontario either. The object is sensible investments that provide employment doing something useful.

If the economic sense is there to extract the resource on a market-basis, while respecting the environment, then great! If not, moving on.

I'm not in favour of punishing the North, but investments should be good dollars after long term returns.

Resource extraction is always time-limited, and often surprisingly short.

You build all that infrastructure and then the mine shuts down after 30 years, and you have to pay to take it all back out and remediate.

That cost isn't even shown.

The infrastructure will have no other use. There are no towns en route for it to serve.

Alternate strategies should be considered alongside this type of investment.

Would the north be better off if we made T-Bay a city of 500,000 with a dramatically bigger post-secondary sector, more hub-services as a mid-sized city, able to better attract immigrants and retain
locals?

What about doing the same for Sudbury?

But maybe that means some smaller resource towns will have to be 'ghosted'.

So we buy out the homeowners and businesses; rip out the no longer required infrastructure, don't subsidize the elementary school with 19 kids in it, some of whom are bussed 90 minutes to school.

Alternatively, others may wish to leave the north for other regions.

The north does need investment, the question is what kind, for what return?

And why does southern Ontario get government-funded railways, roads and infrastructure necessary for its business success?You're going to have to look that up like anyone else does.


Perhaps we could answer this with some math.

Suppose we compare the 'investment' in the Ring of Fire vs the recent transit announcements for Toronto.

Ring of Fire:

1 Billion

Population served: up to 20,000 (not directly either)

Cost per person: $50,000

Toronto Transit Announcement: 9 Billion

Population served 3,000,000 plus suburbs.

Cost per person $3,300

Most charitable cost comparison possible makes the Ring of Fire investment 16 times more expensive per person.

Let's then consider potential return.

Ring of Fire, Leveraged private dollars: 3.3 Billion (no secondary investment likely)

GTA transit investment: Conservatively induces growth of 500,000 in population with a commensurate GDP pay off of 56k per year per person, so $28 Billion PER YEAR.

If you'd prefer to compare only induced construction investment, 180,000 housing units @150,000 per unit build cost = 27 Billion

Anyway you cut it, the investment yield is much higher in the south in terms of economic return.

Which again, is not an argument not to invest in the north; its an argument to invest more intelligently in the north.
 
I'm pretty sure that even if all of northern ontario tried to move to Toronto it really wouldn't make too much of a dent on our housing prices. The first reason is that there are already 100000 people moving here yearly. The second is that the people up there unfortunately for them could not afford Toronto prices so it wouldn't drive anything up. It might drive food banks up but that's about it.
 
What is this? Wishful thinking? A prediction? A warning? A discussion point suggestion?
I think its wishful thinking. The NDP hasnt wanted to be the third wheel for a long time. They are trying to be a legitimate option. The thing is I could never vote for them because I don't trust them. I dont trust them because times where their policies should have aligned with the Liberals they didn't. Which puts a voter like myself who is Liberal but not happy with the party in a bad situation option wise. I honestly think I would rather vote for a relatively humane PC candidate then vote for the NDP. Unfortunately that too isn't an option with Ford.
 
What I take to be the Green Party of Ontario's platform is out.

https://gpo.ca/vision/

A bit too cluttered for my taste.

Some key points.

Universal Dental Care
Universal Pharmacare (Federally funded if possible, provincial otherwise)
Phased roll-out of Universal Basic Income, with substantial short-term increases in OW and ODSP benefits.
Universal, FREE childcare for children 3 and under.

Lower payroll taxes
Offer surplus electricity to local business first, at a discount
Allow Craft Beer stores 'comparable to Wine Rack'
Allow Private Cannabis Stores

Support Rapid Electrification of all rapid transit systems
Move towards a goal of no internal combustion engines by 2050 (including private vehicles)
Mandate permeable paving on all new parking spaces
 
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