[jje1000]

Interesting new comments from Tory's campaign- again positioning himself as the "candidate of stability":

INBOX: Team Tory responds to Keesmaat's transit plan announcement.

https://twitter.com/jm_mcgrath/status/1035193752934141952

 

[crs1026]

@Tuscani01
I'm not sure Keesmat actually understands this. And throwing up a map of different coloured spaghetti has only piqued my suspicion that she doesn't get it.

It's a terrible map. The sort that says, your brain will hurt if you try to absorb what I'm saying. Definitely not the map for a mayoral campaign.

Great plan, but yeah it's a presentation for techies, not riders.

- Paul

 

[pstogios]

What I don’t understand is how Keesmaat can keep it straight in her head, or assume voters are that stupid, as to believe that she can first criticize politicians for getting in the way of transit planning by drawing lines on a map... and then she draws lines on a map as a politician-hopeful.

I’m not saying her transit plan isn’t sound, or that scraping such a focus on Scamtrack isn’t a good idea, or that indeed politicians should be involved in transit planning... I’m just saying it’s rich for the would be-pot to call the kettle black.

That rubbed me the wrong way and took away from what was otherwise a solid presentation.

Since she rightly identified politicians as the main problem for why Toronto transit is in the dark ages, why didn’t she give any ideas or proposals for how she will enshrine evidence-based transit planning? How would she change the status quo?

 

[nfitz]

What I don’t understand is how Keesmaat can keep it straight in her head, or assume voters are that stupid, as to believe that she can first criticize politicians for getting in the way of transit planning by drawing lines on a map... and then she draws lines on a map as a politician-hopeful.

I’m not saying her transit plan isn’t sound, or that scraping such a focus on Scamtrack isn’t a good idea, or that indeed politicians should be involved in transit planning... I’m just saying it’s rich for the would be-pot to call the kettle black.

The issue was that that John Tory wrote up his plan, with completely new lines, that appeared to have been drawn on toilet paper that he pulled out of his imagination.

I haven't inspected 100%, but off-hand there is no LRT or subway in Keesmat's proposal that wasn't already approved by City Council in early 2016. The BRT stuff also seems to appear in previous city reports (I thought some was already running).

Which one of those "new" Keesmat LRT lines wasn't on this plan approved unanimously by city council? (perhaps there is one, I only looked briefly)

There's a huge difference between backing existing lines approved by council, and showing it on a map and what Tory invented.

March 2016 Council-Approved Plan

 

[hw621]

The issue was that that John Tory wrote up his plan, with completely new lines, that appeared to have been drawn on toilet paper that he pulled out of his imagination.

I haven't inspected 100%, but off-hand there is nothing in Keesmat's proposal that wasn't already approved by City Council in early 2016.

Which one of those "new" Keesmat lines wasn't on this plan approved unanimously by city council? (perhaps there is one, I only looked briefly)

There's a huge difference between backing existing lines approved by council, and showing it on a map and what Tory invented.

March 2016 Council-Approved Plan
View attachment 155131

Isn't SmartTrack on this map?

 

[syn]

I don't have a problem with maps, but there needs to be some sort of rationale attached.

I'd agree with the idea that Keesmaat may be great at policy but not so great at connecting with actual voters. There's still time to change that though.

While politicians like Rob Ford and Trump are cited as being able to connect with people, I'd add the likes of Obama, Bill Clinton and even David Miller to that list. Regardless of your political affiliation, you simply have to be able to connect with people.

Hopefully things can turn around for her as I'd love to see a change from Tory.

Her idea of the city funding the DRL (at least to some significant degree) while the province pays for the SSE is an interesting one though. I could imagine Ford liking it a lot.

 

[nfitz]

Isn't SmartTrack on this map?

Yes - that's what the city approved in 2016. Keesmat also shows the RER lines (cancelling the Lawrence East station now that Doug Ford has promised building a subway station at Lawrence East that siphons away much of the traffic).

A lot of it also appeared in the recent Metrolinx revised Regional Transportation Plan and the early 2018 TTC 5-year Corporate Plan.

 

[pstogios]

The issue was that that John Tory wrote up his plan, with completely new lines, that appeared to have been drawn on toilet paper that he pulled out of his imagination.

I haven't inspected 100%, but off-hand there is no LRT or subway in Keesmat's proposal that wasn't already approved by City Council in early 2016. The BRT stuff also seems to appear in previous city reports (I thought some was already running).

Which one of those "new" Keesmat LRT lines wasn't on this plan approved unanimously by city council? (perhaps there is one, I only looked briefly)

There's a huge difference between backing existing lines approved by council, and showing it on a map and what Tory invented.

You obviously didn't understand my point (I'm not surprised).

My point is not at all about the specific lines she proposed. It's the fact that she criticized politicians presenting lines on a map....by posing as a politician presenting lines on a map.

Why didn't she label the map "COUNCIL APPROVED PLAN" and not "JENNIFER KEESMAT" as if it was her (a would-be politician) plan? If she was stressing that politicians shouldn't propose transit lines in the middle of an election campaign, why did she do exactly that? (regardless of whether she was proposing new lines or not)

I realize as a Mayoral candidate she has to show what she would support for transit infrastructure, and this is a difficult needle to thread, but to me it was transparently hypocritical.

 

[crs1026]

It’s a no-win game - JK has to present a transit plan that differentiates her thinking from Tory’s, to show off her own ‘better’ plan... but she mustn’t offer fresh thinking so radical as to allow Tory to accuse her of starting another round of redesign and redebate. I think she hit the sweet spot by sticking mostly to things that have momentum, stressing need for speed on DRL while downplaying ST.
On a technical level, I think her only flaw is how she booted King Street - she made it about the pilot, rather than about a corridor stretching out at both ends.
But the big problem is, it’s a planner’s chart and not a What’s In It For Me takeaway for voters. Maybe her face to face delivery was better, but the chart doesn’t sizzle.
I think she will get good marks from the pundits, and that may help her rep. But the message has to speak to people.
(Digression: now is a good time for us to refresh our memory about which news outlets get read the most. One article in the Star versus one article in the Sun are not equal readership or impact)

- Paul

 

[calimehtar]

It's definitely an uphill battle. keesmaat's campaign depends on anger directed at the provincial Tories, and her superior speaking abilities. Both of these are immutable facts. Hell, I'm a better public speaker then Tory, and keesmaat is actually a great speaker. The question is whether it's enough to convince voters to reject a popular and reliable incumbent. I think transit maps are just details in this campaign.

 

[steveintoronto]

It's definitely an uphill battle. keesmaat's campaign depends on anger directed at the provincial Tories, and her superior speaking abilities. Both of these are immutable facts. Hell, I'm a better public speaker then Tory, and keesmaat is actually a great speaker. The question is whether it's enough to convince voters to reject a popular and reliable incumbent. I think transit maps are just details in this campaign.

Indeed. It's just a stupid map. And risible, and mutable. It will change. What won't change is this:

Keesmaat said the province will build the three-stop extension “no matter what,” and so the city should take its $910 million and spend it on other parts of the network, including a 16-kilometre extension of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT to Malvern in Scarborough.

A spokesperson for Ontario Transportation Minister John Yakabuski didn’t respond directly when asked whether the province would build the subway without a city contribution.

https://www.thestar.com/news/toront...at-pitches-citywide-network-transit-plan.html
The rest is dressing. THIS is the crux of her attack, and it's telling that so many posters have missed that QP is now being checked. It may even be 'checkmate' but we'll have to see what brash moves Ford et al make. She's brilliantly outwitting them by playing their game. Which is pretty pedantic, to be diplomatic.

What's Ford going to do? Deny that the province will build SSE? It's his sandbox...all his, no-one else's. Because he says so, and he can upload it any time he likes, so there...and now she's holding him to it. "Subways, subways, subways". Anyone wish to erase that quote?

OK John, your turn...anything clever to add to the move? (Maybe tidy your suit, polish those brown Oxfords...comb your hair?)

 

[Hopkins123]

She needs to be a populist candidate, especially if she's working with a name-recognition deficit. Her transit plan lays out the details (which people skim), but the title summaries need to be simpler, larger and more memorable.

Simple, loud slogans and promises that low-information voters can understand and remember on their way to the voting booth. Effective marketing and association of the opponent with certain visceral feelings.

Tory is going that route with Kouvalis and Kinsella at the helm of his campaign- it remains to be seen if Keesmaat can do the same.



This- Keesmaat has to tear down Tory's image as the 'safe mayoral choice' and replace it with the image of waste, silver-spoon-detachment and stagnation. If she can start connecting dots in people's minds about instances like the AC on the TTC breaking down during the summer and Tory cutting TTC funding, it will do her plenty of good.

Her planned "vision" seriously underwhelms and again shortchanges the suburbs where the most people actually live. A left-wing populist? Does such a thing even exist? To draw comparisons, we've seen what happened to Bernie down south.

 

[ssiguy2]

Just to put into perspective how ridiculous Toronto transit infrastructure costs are...………..Vancouver is in the process of finalizing it's SkyTrain Millenium Line extension from VCC to Arbutus. It too will be 6 km but will have 6 new 100 meter stations of which 5 stations will be undergroiund and will 5 km of the line will be underground. It will not be going down Malvern or even Queen but rather MUCH busier, congested, populated, and essential Broadway arguably the most important street in the city.

Broadway is not very wide, has a very solid urban form for the entire length with high density living, office towers, City Hall, VGH the largest hospital in the province, and go underneath a current subway corridor...…….the Canada Line. All that for $2.8 billion and, unlike Toronto, Vancouver has a habit of coming in under budget and ahead of schedule.

If that doesn't demonstrate how ridiculous Toronto costs are then nothing will.

 

[nfitz]

Why didn't she label the map "COUNCIL APPROVED PLAN" and not "JENNIFER KEESMAT"

Because it's different. And obviously not council-approved (or council approved). Look at the Malvern connection for example, and some of the BRT stuff.

I'm surprised you'd suggest she should have misrepresented it.

 

[nfitz]

If that doesn't demonstrate how ridiculous Toronto costs are then nothing will.

Apples and oranges. Half-length stations, very different geology, and those extra-narrow trains the same as we have on Line 3.

And those costs don't seem to be that different than those on the 20-km long Eglinton line, which has much wider trains, and is probably more comparable in many ways.