kEiThZ
Superstar
Spicy....
There's not a single Russian tank or IFV that can survive a DU round.
There's not a single Russian tank or IFV that can survive a DU round.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
I have to admit. I really like how Russia reuses and recycles military hardware. The downside, for them, is that this kit isn't going to do well against the coming Western armour and artillery.....
afransen
Senior Member
The West is really helping Russia do some spring cleaning and getting rid of all their aging military hardware. The losses are kind of mind boggling, especially when you consider what they are fighting for.
Richard White
Senior Member
I drove a T-55 in Hungary years ago and plan to drive a T-72 in June.
The T-55 is a klunky piece of machinery but it is simple and gets the job done.
That said, they are fun to putt around in on a range but I wouldn't want to be operating one on the battlefield.
kEiThZ
Superstar
As a fire support weapon against unsupported and stationary infantry? Sure.
Against infantry supported by tanks, drones, infantry fighting vehicles, precision artillery and mortars, and carrying their own ATGMs? Not a chance. Crew won't even see the guys who killed them. If they survive and don't bail after the first hit, they are definitely dead after.
How A Ukrainian Gunner Scored A Record-Breaking Tank-To-Tank Kill From 6 Miles Away
A new video is claimed to show a Ukrainian T-64 knocking out a Russian tank from a distance that's double the previous record. Here's why that's possible, with the help of a small drone and an Android tablet with some smart Ukrainian software.
www.forbes.com
Also to put in context, the side, top and rear armour on these old tanks can be penetrated by modern higher caliber machine guns at closer ranges (100m-300m). And every infantry platoon normally has one of those. So these tanks would get shredded in urban environments.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Ukrainians are basically knocking them out as fast as the Russians can refurbish them. And the main Western armour hasn't even reached the front yet. The Russians are going to have a terrible summer.
The Ukrainians Are Knocking Out The Russians’ Newest And Oldest Tanks As Fast As They Arrive At The Front
On both March 19 and 21, the analysts at the Oryx blog identified at least one destroyed T-62, T-72, T-80 and T-90. The T-62 is the oldest Russian tank type in the Ukraine war. The T-90 is the newest.
www.forbes.com
Richard White
Senior Member
Ukrainians are basically knocking them out as fast as the Russians can refurbish them. And the main Western armour hasn't even reached the front yet. The Russians are going to have a terrible summer.
The Ukrainians Are Knocking Out The Russians’ Newest And Oldest Tanks As Fast As They Arrive At The Front
On both March 19 and 21, the analysts at the Oryx blog identified at least one destroyed T-62, T-72, T-80 and T-90. The T-62 is the oldest Russian tank type in the Ukraine war. The T-90 is the newest.
I wonder what the use of T-54 and T-55 tanks says about their remaining stock.
It is almost as though they are running out of kit and equipment causing them to dig deep.
Next thing you know they will be clearing out the museums. No doubt they still have some T-18 tanks on display
lenaitch
Senior Member
What I have been constantly impressed by since this conflict began, is Ukraine's ability to exploit and adapt commercial technology, methods and industries to innovate and maximize their war effort. It's amazing what you can accomplish when personal and national survival is at stake. No decade of study and millions of dollars to come up with the perfect-est system for them.As a fire support weapon against unsupported and stationary infantry? Sure.
Against infantry supported by tanks, drones, infantry fighting vehicles, precision artillery and mortars, and carrying their own ATGMs? Not a chance. Crew won't even see the guys who killed them. If they survive and don't bail after the first hit, they are definitely dead after.
How A Ukrainian Gunner Scored A Record-Breaking Tank-To-Tank Kill From 6 Miles Away
A new video is claimed to show a Ukrainian T-64 knocking out a Russian tank from a distance that's double the previous record. Here's why that's possible, with the help of a small drone and an Android tablet with some smart Ukrainian software.
Also to put in context, the side, top and rear armour on these old tanks can be penetrated by modern higher caliber machine guns at closer ranges (100m-300m). And every infantry platoon normally has one of those. So these tanks would get shredded in urban environments.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Good account of a veteran Ukrainian tank commander.
Paywall free here: https://archive.is/PkNIW
“Poltava recalled a defining moment when he was a young officer serving under contract with the Russian military in Georgia. During the Russian intervention to annex the Abkhazia region, he was approached by an older Georgian man who asked him what he was doing there. "I'm standing there, a young officer, and I say, 'I'm defending the motherland,'" Poltava recalled. "He looks into my eyes. 'Son, where is your motherland? Where are you from?' I say, 'I'm from Kharkiv, Ukraine.' And he says, 'And this is Poti, Georgia.' And he spits in my face. It was like a smack. I was taken aback. And then I thought, 'Really, what am I doing here?'"
“Fighting against the Russian Army has made him reflect on the many untruths he was taught at the Soviet military college, including that Soviet tanks were superior to the American Abrams tanks. "Now we are facing them and we see it's like heaven and earth," Poltava said, "and we understood how much they brainwashed us." "We were always told that the U.S. and NATO were our enemy, and it turned out the opposite," he said. "Those who we thought were our friends stabbed us in the back."
This awakening to the foundational lies and farcical ineptitude that is Russia is the biggest risk to Putin and Russia’s prestige and hold on Bellarus, Chechnya, Georgia, the ‘Stans and the far east. Ukrainians can see first hand that Russia is a broken scrap heap of a nation, and these other nations above will soon test the same shackles.
Paywall free here: https://archive.is/PkNIW
“Poltava recalled a defining moment when he was a young officer serving under contract with the Russian military in Georgia. During the Russian intervention to annex the Abkhazia region, he was approached by an older Georgian man who asked him what he was doing there. "I'm standing there, a young officer, and I say, 'I'm defending the motherland,'" Poltava recalled. "He looks into my eyes. 'Son, where is your motherland? Where are you from?' I say, 'I'm from Kharkiv, Ukraine.' And he says, 'And this is Poti, Georgia.' And he spits in my face. It was like a smack. I was taken aback. And then I thought, 'Really, what am I doing here?'"
“Fighting against the Russian Army has made him reflect on the many untruths he was taught at the Soviet military college, including that Soviet tanks were superior to the American Abrams tanks. "Now we are facing them and we see it's like heaven and earth," Poltava said, "and we understood how much they brainwashed us." "We were always told that the U.S. and NATO were our enemy, and it turned out the opposite," he said. "Those who we thought were our friends stabbed us in the back."
This awakening to the foundational lies and farcical ineptitude that is Russia is the biggest risk to Putin and Russia’s prestige and hold on Bellarus, Chechnya, Georgia, the ‘Stans and the far east. Ukrainians can see first hand that Russia is a broken scrap heap of a nation, and these other nations above will soon test the same shackles.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
If Canada had a general call up, Quebec would separate and a good portion of our population would grab their other passport and flee.
DSC
Superstar
That is an amazing generalisation and I think the REASON for any 'general call-up" would be a huge factor in how everyone reacted to it.
Richard White
Senior Member
I have to agree with you on this one.
The pansy assed youth these days would object to serving and the immigrants would flee to avoid it.
Does anyone honestly think all the international students turned PR applicants would fight for Canada?
Unfortunately, unless we mandate military service there is no way to ensure consistent service levels.
T3G
Senior Member
Boomer moment
kEiThZ
Superstar
I would hope that people would have learned from the diversity of Ukraine's forces that bullshit patriotism and machismo doesn't win wars. Ukraine has had foreign students voluntarily take up arms or serve as medics and civil defence since the February invasion.
And the CAF is now opening up to Permanent Residents. There's plenty who want to serve. 2400 applied when the announcement was made.
www.ctvnews.ca
The CAF is substantially more diverse now. And we're all the better for it. Our biggest issue is not about getting immigrants to sign up. It's the fact that the CAF lifestyle involves living in far flung bases away from coming and family. If white guys born in Toronto aren't willing to do that, it's a big reach to say immigrants are disloyal for not signing up enough. I've personally advocated for closing our remote bases so that we can improve recruiting and retention.
Lastly, in my experience those who talk tough almost never live up to their talk. Ultimately, you can't tell what someone will truly do until the bullets start flying. So I would hold off the judgment and presumption.
And the CAF is now opening up to Permanent Residents. There's plenty who want to serve. 2400 applied when the announcement was made.
Canadian Armed Forces now allowing permanent residents to enlist amid low recruitment
The Canadian Armed Forces announced on Friday that permanent residents will now be allowed to enlist, as the military struggles with low recruitment levels.
The CAF is substantially more diverse now. And we're all the better for it. Our biggest issue is not about getting immigrants to sign up. It's the fact that the CAF lifestyle involves living in far flung bases away from coming and family. If white guys born in Toronto aren't willing to do that, it's a big reach to say immigrants are disloyal for not signing up enough. I've personally advocated for closing our remote bases so that we can improve recruiting and retention.
Lastly, in my experience those who talk tough almost never live up to their talk. Ultimately, you can't tell what someone will truly do until the bullets start flying. So I would hold off the judgment and presumption.
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Richard White
Senior Member
Actually, I am 35 not 65.
My cousins who are in their late teens and early 20s can't be bothered to get off the couch let alone fight an actual war.
I also know more than a few former international students who have no allegiance to Canada other than their PR status. If war broke out, they would be fleeing back to their homeland in an instant.