[Twisted Son of Gumby]

If the 401 rapid transit line was viewed in the same regard as the 401 itself, it might work. Hardly anyone starts their trip exactly at an on ramp and ends their trip exactly at an off ramp. Instead, their trip starts some distance from the on ramp, ends some distance from the off ramp, and the highway itself is simply a high speed connector.

In light of this, a Pickering-Oakville GO ALRT crosstown line, running along the Finch hydro ROW, seems to make at least as much sense as a viable and slightly cheaper alternative.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I agree, I'd support a GO ALRT Hydro Corridor route before a 401 RT route.

Even just putting HOV or bus lanes on the 401 would make a big difference for busses traveling along the route.

 

[golodhendil]

With a Sheppard LRT connecting the Sheppard Subway, a Finch West LRT and the Eglinton LRT, a 401 Expressway RT will not happen!

Thanks for reminding us of the mediocrity of transit planning in Toronto!
As if that piecemeal, surface-running Transfer City is going to do anything as a northern crosstown corridor.

 

[CodeMonkey]

With a Sheppard LRT connecting the Sheppard Subway, a Finch West LRT and the Eglinton LRT, a 401 Expressway RT will not happen!

The LRT's in these areas are great for if your just traveling between points on one LRT line. However these lines are not great if your trying to get from the east end of the city to the west end quickly.

 

[DavidH]

The LRT's in these areas are great for if your just traveling between points on one LRT line. However these lines are not great if your trying to get from the east end of the city to the west end quickly.

Agreed. We don't actually need something in the 401 corridor itself, although it would be nice for drivers in trafic on the 401 to *see* that they have an alternative. However, a Finch hydro corridor line would work well enough.

The omission of this line is the single greatest failure of the Metrolinx RTP, particularly when such a line was discussed during the early stages of the process. Yes, it's expensive, but we could have cut back some of the marginal LRT lines (Sheppard East, anyone?) to help make it happen.

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^Even just putting bus lanes on the 401 would be great. Heck, they could put in a bus lane and a HOV lane, that'd be great. It'd show 401 users the magic of transit, and if they can't change for some reason or another, HOV lanes might at least encourage more people to carpool. The big reason I agree with a 401 BRT is because other Go bus services would be able to use it, and bus/HOV lanes would help with that a lot.

I agree, the Finch hydro corridor would be a better regional crosstown route. If they did it as per the entire GO ALRT proposal going down to Pearson and MCC, that'd be awesome, but even just starting it along the Finch corridor itself, then extending it would be great.

 

[CodeMonkey]

^^Even just putting bus lanes on the 401 would be great. Heck, they could put in a bus lane and a HOV lane, that'd be great. It'd show 401 users the magic of transit, and if they can't change for some reason or another, HOV lanes might at least encourage more people to carpool. The big reason I agree with a 401 BRT is because other Go bus services would be able to use it, and bus/HOV lanes would help with that a lot.

The problems with bus lanes or HOV on the 401 is that everyone is going to use them regardless of its designation. Its a good idea, however i don't think it can be enforced.

 

[Second_in_pie]

The problems with bus lanes or HOV on the 401 is that everyone is going to use them regardless of its designation. Its a good idea, however i don't think it can be enforced.

They could make an effort to try at least. How much does adding bus lanes cost other than relatively nothing? There's really not much to lose, and if properly enforced and respected, it could improve travel times for busses considerably.

They could even start with HOV lanes, and once they get those under control, they could turn it into a bus lane and add another HOV lane.

 

[CodeMonkey]

They could make an effort to try at least. How much does adding bus lanes cost other than relatively nothing? There's really not much to lose, and if properly enforced and respected, it could improve travel times for busses considerably.

They could even start with HOV lanes, and once they get those under control, they could turn it into a bus lane and add another HOV lane.

Its a good idea, but making commuters not using the Bus only lanes will be hard to enforce if you get a lot people using it over a period of time.

The only reason why the 401RT idea is being thought up is because you already have a crosstown route with land that the provinces doesn't have to buy or deal with complaints from people that the line will go through their backyard. However, i still prefer some form of a GO-ALRT crosstown.

 

[TOareaFan]

Its a good idea, but making commuters not using the Bus only lanes will be hard to enforce if you get a lot people using it over a period of time.

Generally speaking, we do a lousy job of enforcement on restricted lanes......as an example, I ride the King Street car ocassionally during the hours (2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon) that they are supposed to have exclusive use of the centre lanes....I have never seen a car pulled over and/or ticketed for ignoring the lane restrictions.

Enforcement is the key.....if drivers think they can just ingnore the lane restrictions, hanging signs will do nothing to improve the relative efficiency of transit.

 

[kettal]

All traffic enforcement is lax in Ontario. Speed limits are just suggestions in this part of the world.

 

[kettal]

The only thing making it unfeasible is the remarkable expense of building something like this and the lack of development returns. But I doubt that ridership should be in question. I see a lot of pondering about walk-ins. However, out in the suburbs (where the 401RT would be) most riders arrive at stations by buses. Walk-in ridership is not necessary to make the 410RT a success.

You don't see the problem with this? A two transfer minimum to get from anywhere to anywhere is a huge deterrent. Nobody will do this if they could drive instead.

 

[kettal]

Why? There are plenty of examples around the world of urban and suburban rail corridors/stations along freeways/highways that are very successful and well-used. As long as the area around the stations are well developed or if the stations are well connected, there is nothing inherently worse about a railway corridor along a freeway.

Please could you name these examples?

I'll believe that using a highway corridor for part of the length can be useful, but to run the whole thing in the middle of one of the world's busiest, noisiest, and widest freeway? Forget it.

 

[nfitz]

All traffic enforcement is lax in Ontario. Speed limits are just suggestions in this part of the world.

Yet try parking in a "no parking 4 pm to 6 pm" lane on a Toronto artery. If your there at 4 pm I can guarantee you the car won't be there by 5:30 ... not in my neighbourhood at least. Not just ticketed ... but towed.

 

[nfitz]

You don't see the problem with this? A two transfer minimum to get from anywhere to anywhere is a huge deterrent. Nobody will do this if they could drive instead.

I can drive to work, and I frequently take 3 or 4 transit vehicles (sometimes I just walk 10 minutes to the Danforth, or 5 minutes to Don Mills Road at the other end). One of vehicles them is Don Mills Road. I would kill for a subway from Pape to Eglinton ... even though I'd then be taking 4 vehicles. It woudl still be quicker.

On a frequent service, the number of transit vehicles doesn't make that much difference ... I've tried various routings ... one even took 6 vehicles ... and the travel time was about the same. What slows down trips is waiting times (especially for those less frequent routes ... fortunately the two I take less frequently I can walk ... and do unless it's torrenting), traffic, and overloaded vehicles.

I'm sure there's psychological factors though ...