[Northern Light]

Province to fast-track high-speed rail assessment

A major tidbit in here:


That means the GO Kitchener line. I had presumed that they would use the Freight bypass/missing link to some degree.

Guelph is a complicated beast to fix; but the suggestion that this would not involve a bypass of Rockwood and Acton is bizarre to me as the track alignment there clearly interferes w/good running speed. That fix is not overly expensive, yet.

 

[steveintoronto]

Province to fast-track high-speed rail assessment

A major tidbit in here:


That means the GO Kitchener line. I had presumed that they would use the Freight bypass/missing link to some degree.

The only thing new in that announcement is the acknowledgement of the "private sector".

The cost of the high-speed rail line has been estimated at $21 billion, with construction starting in 2022. The province is expected to seek funding help from the federal government and the private sector.

The Feds are avoiding it, but tied into HFR, it would be very attractive for a PFI to build/and-or run that leg, while owning and running the HFR from Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal, and perhaps further to QC and Windsor.

That same consortium, however, would want no part of gov't mandated outsourcing. It would be their own rolling stock along with the liability, even if the Feds/Province lease/own certain aspects. This is the model now typical in other nations, and coming late to Canada...this half century. Before that, almost all rail infrastructure was built and financed by private initiative, with land-grants in Canada's and many other nations' cases.

That means the GO Kitchener line. I had presumed that they would use the Freight bypass/missing link to some degree.

It's certainly been proposed for later passenger allowance, but initially, Union is the point of call.

 

[steveintoronto]

Guelph is a complicated beast to fix; but the suggestion that this would not involve a bypass of Rockwood and Acton is bizarre to me as the track alignment there clearly interferes w/good running speed. That fix is not overly expensive, yet.

Yeah, Guelph is a tough one, but the last story I read on it they were adamant about slamming it through the middle of town, leaning on the faster EA for using existing RoW.

It's not just the heritage listed properties, but also the grade west out of Guelph. To the east the RoW was from the Toronto and Guelph Railway, engineered to much higher spec. To the west, it was a continuation built later by the Grand Trunk to lesser specs.

Addendum for Northern Light's point: Even though this is and will be further a huge issue in Guelph (with a distinct identity based on 'doing it alone without interference, a form of 'isolationism') the Mayor, cognizant of the consequences of being by-passed for prosperity, very much supports the 'heart of town' route, even with the destruction it would reap.

Guelph is vexed on the point, I'll see if I can find and post a local article on it. I was there for five years, and I do see both sides of the issue. There's two issues, the engineering one, and the 'heritage' one.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Guelph is a complicated beast to fix; but the suggestion that this would not involve a bypass of Rockwood and Acton is bizarre to me as the track alignment there clearly interferes w/good running speed. That fix is not overly expensive, yet.

Yeah, Guelph is a tough one, but the last story I read on it they were adamant about slamming it through the middle of town, leaning on the faster EA for using existing RoW.

It's not just the heritage listed properties, but also the grade west out of Guelph. To the east the RoW was from the Toronto and Guelph Railway, engineered to much higher spec. To the west, it was a continuation built later by the Grand Trunk to lesser specs.

Addendum for Northern Light's point: Even though this is and will be further a huge issue in Guelph (with a distinct identity based on 'doing it alone without interference, a form of 'isolationism') the Mayor, cognizant of the consequences of being by-passed for prosperity, very much supports the 'heart of town' route, even with the destruction it would reap.

Guelph is vexed on the point, I'll see if I can find and post a local article on it. I was there for five years, and I do see both sides of the issue. There's two issues, the engineering one, and the 'heritage' one.

I responded to this Guelph issue at length in the GO Construction thread.

 

[crs1026]

It's not just the heritage listed properties, but also the grade west out of Guelph. To the east the RoW was from the Toronto and Guelph Railway, engineered to much higher spec. To the west, it was a continuation built later by the Grand Trunk to lesser specs.

Say what? See Ontario Top maps

Elevation of Guelph Sub

Credit River, Norval - 250 m
Limehouse - 316 m
Acton - 354 m
Eramosa (top of grade) - 376 m
Victoria St, Guelph - 320 m
Speed River - 328 m
Edinburgh St - 332 m
Highway 6 - 327 m
Rd 32 - 332 m
Rd 30 - 325 m
Rd 17 - 335 m
Grand River - 309 m
Highway 85 - 320 m

The only difference in roadbed that's material today is the absence of CWR west of Kitchener, and the quality of surfacing and ballast. As for grade, it's smooth sailing after Eramosa.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

^ Great research Paul, thanks for sharing.

 

[mdrejhon]

Province to fast-track high-speed rail assessment
A major tidbit in here:
That means the GO Kitchener line. I had presumed that they would use the Freight bypass/missing link to some degree.

Sensible move.

Essentially making all assessments (high speed, RER, etc) are all done for Kitchener sections.

This section is important there are many congruences -- same catenary, same requirement of Freight Bypass -- decisions made today should not shoot each other's feet.

 

[Allandale25]

There was another announcement in Waterloo Region this afternoon about HSR. It included some details about the EAs between Georgetown and Kitchener and for the freight bypass. Details here and copied below (emphasis added with the specific details). Going to cross post this to the Bypass thread and the GO service thread.

Two-Way, All-Day GO for Waterloo Region Takes Next Steps Forward
Ontario Commits More Than $11 Billion for High Speed Rail and Takes Next Steps to Deliver Two-Way, All-Day GO Regional Express Rail Service to Kitchener
April 6, 2018 3:32 P.M.
Office of the Premier

Premier Kathleen Wynne was at Vidyard in Kitchener today to announce a series of actions Ontario is taking to dramatically expand regional transit for people in Waterloo Region.

As announced in the 2018 Budget, the government will make an initial investment of more than $11 billion to support construction of Phase One of Canada's first high speed rail line. This will create a fast route between Toronto's Union Station, Pearson International Airport, Guelph, Kitchener and London as early as 2025. Electric-powered trains moving at up to 250 kilometres per hour will slash travel times to an estimated 48 minutes between Kitchener and Toronto Union Station.

The Premier also announced key advances in bringing two-way, all-day GO train service to Kitchener by 2024, as part of the GO Regional Express Rail project (GO RER). Ontario is moving ahead with two environmental assessments (EAs), which are required to provide faster, electrified, two-way, all-day train service on the Kitchener line. One EA is to provide electrified service between Georgetown and Kitchener, and the other EA is the next step for the freight bypass to provide unrestricted rail access for passenger trains between Toronto and Kitchener. To help guide this work and deliver a near-term increase in service and faster travel times for customers, the province is hiring a technical advisor.

As part of this EA phase, Ontario is now working with the Greater Toronto Airport Authority (GTAA) to explore options to connect two-way, all-day service on the Kitchener GO line to the proposed multimodal transit hub at Toronto Pearson International Airport. The major transit hub the GTAA is proposing to build at Pearson will offer seamless connections between trains, buses, airplanes, light rail vehicles and high speed rail along the Toronto-Windsor corridor.

High speed rail and two-way, all-day GO RER will strengthen transit connections across Central and Southwestern Ontario and help create jobs and economic growth. The new and expanded services will give people a faster and greener way to get to a good job, and will help businesses attract talented workers from across a wider area.

Expanding transit options in Waterloo Region and across Southwestern Ontario is part of the government's plan to support care, create opportunity and make life more affordable during this period of rapid economic change. The plan includes free prescription drugs for everyone under 25, and 65 or over, through the biggest expansion of medicare in a generation, free tuition for hundreds of thousands of students, a higher minimum wage and better working conditions, and easier access to affordable child care.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

There was another announcement in Waterloo Region this afternoon about HSR. It included some details about the EAs between Georgetown and Kitchener and for the freight bypass. Details here and copied below (emphasis added with the specific details). Going to cross post this to the Bypass thread and the GO service thread.

Who is doing an EA for the freight bypass and why? These are usually done by whomever is going to use it; in this case, it would be CN, but CN is not subject to the province's EA legislation. So it's either referring to a federal EA (I think it's subject to that legislation), or the province is doing it in their own. I'm interested.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Who is doing an EA for the freight bypass and why? These are usually done by whomever is going to use it; in this case, it would be CN, but CN is not subject to the province's EA legislation. So it's either referring to a federal EA (I think it's subject to that legislation), or the province is doing it in their own. I'm interested.

The Province could study, design, and build the bypass themselves, then just “give it” to CN and CP to “figure it out” and maintain it.

 

[TOareaFan]

The Province could study, design, and build the bypass themselves, then just “give it” to CN and CP to “figure it out” and maintain it.

And what if they say “thanks but we like our current corridors but thank you to the taxpayer for giving us some flexibility ‘

Maybe the province could go ahead on their own.....but who in holy hell is gonna waste billions building something like that with a pre-agreement to use it and move off the two GO corridors?

 

[Allandale25]

^ Or just one corridor, depending on what happens in the future and given CN has said they don't want CP joining them on the CN York Sub.

 

[Allandale25]

Who is doing an EA for the freight bypass and why? These are usually done by whomever is going to use it; in this case, it would be CN, but CN is not subject to the province's EA legislation. So it's either referring to a federal EA (I think it's subject to that legislation), or the province is doing it in their own. I'm interested.

Someone else may know more when a federal or provincial EA has to be used, but I'm just wondering if there are similarities to Bowmanville. In that case, a new track is needed to connect the existing GO Lakeshore East line, across the Oshawa parking lot, to CP's line. I haven't heard or seen any indication in that project that it's going to be a federal EA. Yes, I do realize in the Bowmanville case the connecting track between Lakeshore and CP will only be used by GO trains.

 

[crs1026]

Someone else may know more when a federal or provincial EA has to be used, but I'm just wondering if there are similarities to Bowmanville. In that case, a new track is needed to connect the existing GO Lakeshore East line, across the Oshawa parking lot, to CP's line. I haven't heard or seen any indication in that project that it's going to be a federal EA. Yes, I do realize in the Bowmanville case the connecting track between Lakeshore and CP will only be used by GO trains.

Ah, but the new trackage in Oshawa is only a short distance. The EA rules (I will fish out the link, although I have posted it a couple of times before) only require an EA if more than 16 km's of new right of way is proposed. Adding a second track to a line doesn't force a Federal EA, although a whole new operation arguably might.

Edit - Bowmanville did get a provincial EA, however. The report is here.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

EA stuff

Provincial notes regarding the provincial TPAP process here. One interesting note is that it doesn't apply to private sector projects. So, arguably, if CN were the proponent of the bypass, they arguably wouldn't need a Provincial EA. Good luck making that fly without litigation! I suspect CN would have little or no interest in taking this on, with all the heat it would attract.

Federal EA Regulations here, specifying that a Federal EA is required if

• 25 The construction, operation, decommissioning and abandonment of a new
  
  • (a) railway line that requires a total of 32 km or more of new right of way;
    
    
  • (b) railway yard with seven or more yard tracks or a total track length of 20 km or more;
    
    
  • (c) all-season public highway that requires a total of 50 km or more of new right of way; or
    
    
  • (d) railway line designed for trains that have an average speed of 200 km/h or more.

• • 
    
    - Paul