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I know where Rosedale is but what is considered South Rosedale?


from the Wiki:

South Rosedale was first settled by Sheriff William Jarvis and his wife, Mary, in the 1820s. Mary Jarvis, whose frequent walks and horseback rides blazed the trails for Rosedale's meandering streets (which are one of the area's trademarks), named Rosedale as a tribute to the abundance of wild roses that graced the hillsides of the Jarvis estate. The Jarvis Family sold the Rosedale homestead in 1864, which led to the residential development of the area soon after.
North Rosedale's development began after the construction of a bridge across the Park Drive Ravine, in 1909. Prior to its development, North Rosedale was the home of St. Andrew's College (1899-1924), an all-boys boarding school (which has since moved to Aurora, Ontario) and the Rosedale Golf Club. The golf club was also home to a lacrosse field (Rosedale Field) and site of the first Grey Cup game.
 
Beautiful neighbourhood, thanks. I was planning to do a Rosedale tour myself, but unfortunately moved up to Ottawa before I got around to it. Will you be doing "north" Rosedale sometime?
 
Thanks for the beautiful tour. Rosedale truly holds its own among beautiful neighbourhoods around the world.

Thedeepend, don't worry too much about Urban Shocker. He is offended by anything that's not made up of concrete, glass, and right angles.
 
Thanks for the beautiful tour. Rosedale truly holds its own among beautiful neighbourhoods around the world.

Thedeepend, don't worry too much about Urban Shocker. He is offended by anything that's not made up of concrete, glass, and right angles.

thanks! i was kind of wondering what the deal with US was....
 
maybe in the UK these things are thick on the ground

They're not--there's nowhere in Britain I know of where there are detached houses that match the variety, elegance, and--above all--upkeep (both of the buildings themselves and the surrounding grounds) of a place like Rosedale. Not even, say, Hampstead.
 
Thanks for the beautiful tour. Rosedale truly holds its own among beautiful neighbourhoods around the world.

Thedeepend, don't worry too much about Urban Shocker. He is offended by anything that's not made up of concrete, glass, and right angles.

Not true, just anything that's ugly, ungainly and pretentious.
 
ganjavih's unprompted misrepresentation shouldn't stand uncorrected. I am not offended by anything that's not made up of concrete, glass and right angles.
 
In defence of Urban Shocker, he has been known (on the Toronto- Now and Then thread) to have a soft spot for early Georgian architecture (particularly the first Bank of Montreal at Front and Yonge):

e2-37.jpg


I would also suspect that if we had a few Crescents, Squares and Circles in the City, he would be ever so pleased:

Crescent5-1.jpg
 
Well, the buildings of every era express the values of their time and the social class that built them, and the buildings of Rosedale at the turn of the last century reflect what the new rich mercantile class wanted in their status homes: heft and respectability and a sense of permanence that drew on historical stylings ( or, with the mysteriously-named "Queen Anne Revival", an amalgam of several previous styles ... ) for effect. The images thedeepend has posted on his thread have captured that nicely, as well as the fact that there was a range of talent at work designing these buildings: not every architect produces pure gold ... but then not every age is a golden age either.

It also highlights the dangers in waxing poetic about "Victorian" architecture as if it was all one style - early buildings are closer to the Georgian neo-Classical and Regency aesthetics whereas these later Rosedale homes are from an economically more robust time when the social structures were changing and Richardsonian Romanesque was high fashion on this continent. And in between we had some Second Empire buildings - a style the Dominion Government used in the 1870s for buildings such as the Customs House on the south west corner of Yonge and Front, shown in that first photo posted above by thecharioteer, and the Eighth Post Office that once stood at the head of Toronto Street - that were pitched somewhere between the two.

What I find most interesting about buildings like the Royal Crescent is the difference between their elegant fronts and the unadorned brick of their rears. We accept both aesthetics, no problem, in one building. It's like when I look out the windows at the back of my house and see the backs of houses on the parallel street: they're not the "showy" side that faces the residential street, they're the often workmanlike ass-end that backs onto the garden, maybe with a deck or lean-to addition added on, reflecting a different aspect of "home".
 
I have to take issue with the idea that Richardsonian Romanesque was a dead-end style. It lead directly to Sullivan and in a more subtle way to Kahn.

I also wonder if I would compare Rosedale to Beacon Hill. Beacon Hill is far older and the house typology is entirely different. For what it's worth, Bulfinch is one of the few American architects pre-Sullivan that I would consider a master and Beacon Hill is an amazing collection of the "matchstick" classical architecture of Puritan New England.
 
I have to take issue with the idea that Richardsonian Romanesque was a dead-end style. It lead directly to Sullivan and in a more subtle way to Kahn.

I also wonder if I would compare Rosedale to Beacon Hill. Beacon Hill is far older and the house typology is entirely different. For what it's worth, Bulfinch is one of the few American architects pre-Sullivan that I would consider a master and Beacon Hill is an amazing collection of the "matchstick" classical architecture of Puritan New England.

Excellent points. I think the typological aspects of Rosedale are worth pursuing and can't be understood without looking at the historical context of its early development and its place in the evolution of the Toronto houseform.

The famous 1856 photographic panorama taken from the the roof of the Rossin House Hotel, which stood on the SE corner of King & York, reveals (broadly speaking) three types of houseforms responding to the the three classes of society of early Toronto: detached mansions for the upper middle- class, terraced townhouses for the middle-class, and cottages (or shacks) for the lower-classes:

Toronto_1856_-_12.jpg


View_from_Rossin_Hotel_5_of_5.jpg


Above it all (geographically as well as economically) were the country estates of the upper classes, the Family Compact families who owned the Park Lots that ran north from Queen to Bloor, families like the Denisons, the Boultons and the Jarvises. Sole survivor of this house-type is the 1817 Grange (behind the AGO):

The_Grange_1907.jpg


Another major estate, whose history leads directly to the development of Rosedale, was Hazelburn. Owned by the Jarvis family, on Park Lot 6, the house was built in 1822 and stood in the middle of what is now the intersection of Shuter and Jarvis:

HazelburnhometoSamuelPetersJarvis.jpg


Without getting into too much history, Samuel Peter Jarvis between 1846 and 1851 decided to develop his estate, demolished Hazelburn, ran a street up the middle of the estate (Jarvis Street) and hired John Howard to work on a plan of subdivision.

The development concept for Jarvis Street reflected the existing housing typologies illustrated in the Rossin House photos (with, of course, no provisions for the poor): small lots for terraced townhouses from Queen north to about Gerrard, medium size lots to about Wellesley and estate lots from Wellesley to Bloor. This concept was not uniformly consistent as some larger estates evolved in the southern sections and some townhouses got developed as far north as Charles.

What was significant about the land development of Jarvis Street, (and reflective of the growing prosperity of the city) was the anticipation of the demand for estate lots. Until this point, the housing of the wealthy was urbane, like the 1837 Latham House on Duke (Adelaide) near Sherbourne:

e5-104a-1.jpg


Or like Cawthra House at King and Bay, built in 1852, remiscent of Fifth Avenue:

1867-2.jpg


Upper Jarvis and Rosedale (originally owned and then subdivided by the Jarvis family in the 1860's) reflected a more sub-urban model, in the true sense of the word, an escape from the growing Dickensian aspects of the central city, with its noise, pollution, smells, factories and crowds. Though it may be more romantic to imagine that the winding streets of Rosedale followed the bucolic trails forged by Mary Jarvis, I would suggest that the winding streets were a deliberate break from the relentless urban grid of the rest of the city (which had no compunction in filling in ravines, levelling hills and eliminating streams) and were laid out that way for marketing purposes.

What better way for the nouveau riche of the late 19thC to show they had arrived than to try to replicate (not stylistically but in terms of acreage and landscaping) the world which at that point had only been open to the oldest families. Though their houses may not have been on country estates, the illusion of country living was created by the curved streets, the retention of the ravines and many of the older trees.

Though the earliest houses in Rosedale were large estates, this too changed as time went on, the lots got further subdivided and the streets got paved and lit:

North Glen Road Bridge, Gooderham Estate, (1885-95):

northglenroad.jpg


South Glen Road Bridge, (1885-95):

southgglenroad.jpg


crescentroad.jpg


Paving of Elm Avenue:

elmavenue2.jpg


Development of Cluny 1901:

cluny.jpg


South Drive 1912:

southdrive.jpg


southdrive2.jpg


Chestnut Park 1919:

chestnutpark1919-1.jpg


Ironically, though the impetus for Rosedale may have been a suburban one, its blending of the "country-estate" housing typology (illustrated at the beginning of this thread) with a "country-lane" curved street system allowed it to stay, relatively intact, as Toronto's most prestigious and expensive downtown neighbourhoods (and a Heritage Conservation District). One only has to look at Upper Jarvis to see how fragile this house type was to development pressures as the century evolved.
 
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