[Red October]

Maybe if we legalized duels then innocent people wouldn't be affected by these scumbags killing each other in public places.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I suspect this is more execution than "duel".

AoD

 

[AKS]

Maybe if we legalized duels then innocent people wouldn't be affected by these scumbags killing each other in public places.

That would be too gentlemanly. Scumbags aren't gentlemen. It wouldn't work.

 

[Marko]

I wonder: where are all of those people who wanted to draw causal inferences based on the alleged shooter's racial background after the Eaton Centre shooting? Their silence is curious; it's almost as if they feel lost without an agenda to push.

I'll bite, even though I never posted here about the Eaton Centre shooting.

Out of Toronto's 60~ murders every year, 40-45 of them are black-on-black killings. Out of the remaining 15-20, you have some of the usual spousal related stuff, the occasional Vietnamese drug dealer or mafia type hit, and the occasional dead prostitute or child abduction type thing. Say there were 2-3 mafia related murders every year, it would still be a dramatically lower percentage of that identifiable ethnic group (with about 750,000 Italians in the GTA) committing murders, when compared to a much larger percentage of a much smaller identifiable ethnic group that commits some 70% of all murders in the city.

People of African or Caribbean descent from countries other than Jamaica or Somalia are not the ones committing these crimes - and they do get unfairly tarnished by this sort of activity - but let's not pretend that the ones who do commit the killings are not from an identifiable background.

Further, it's a much more rare event that a mafia type killing results in innocent bystanders being hit or killed, let alone multiple bystanders. It does happen, of course, like Elaine Russo at California Sandwiches a few years back, but they're not the ones indiscriminately spraying nightclubs, backyard parties or foodcourts with bullets. The second person injured in Little Italy was hit will a bullet fragment that ricocheted and not an errant bullet from someone who was probably trying to look cool while doing the deed.

 

[TheKingEast]

I'll bite, even though I never posted here about the Eaton Centre shooting.

Out of Toronto's 60~ murders every year, 40-45 of them are black-on-black killings. Out of the remaining 15-20, you have some of the usual spousal related stuff, the occasional Vietnamese drug dealer or mafia type hit, and the occasional dead prostitute or child abduction type thing. Say there were 2-3 mafia related murders every year, it would still be a dramatically lower percentage of that identifiable ethnic group (with about 750,000 Italians in the GTA) committing murders, when compared to a much larger percentage of a much smaller identifiable ethnic group that commits some 70% of all murders in the city.

People of African or Caribbean descent from countries other than Jamaica or Somalia are not the ones committing these crimes - and they do get unfairly tarnished by this sort of activity - but let's not pretend that the ones who do commit the killings are not from an identifiable background.

Further, it's a much more rare event that a mafia type killing results in innocent bystanders being hit or killed, let alone multiple bystanders. It does happen, of course, like Elaine Russo at California Sandwiches a few years back, but they're not the ones indiscriminately spraying nightclubs, backyard parties or foodcourts with bullets. The second person injured in Little Italy was hit will a bullet fragment that ricocheted and not an errant bullet from someone who was probably trying to look cool while doing the deed.

Do you have any legit sources to support the above?

I'd actually like to see the amount of homicides per racial group across Canada.

 

[Marko]

Do you have any legit sources to support the above?

I'd actually like to see the amount of homicides per racial group across Canada.

The police aren't supposed to keep those stats and if they did, I doubt we'd hear about the exact numbers. I based my comments on anecdotal evidence of having lived in the area for the past 20 years and recalling the types of crimes, etc... I'm sure someone with better access to stats can provide a more scientific set of numbers, but for now the best I can provide is a graphic that appeared last week in The Star. It doesn't break down further than "non caucasian" and doesn't go into a separate breakdown for gun crime - which is what we're mostly talking about here.

 

[Marko]

Common sense should be sufficient.

Yeah. When only 69 of 389 murder victims since 2006 are white - less than 18% - that means that either white people are killing off minorities in staggering numbers, or they are offing each other. I've spent almost 45 minutes looking for the quote, but I remember reading that for any of the many black men who have been killed, it's a statistical anomaly if it is anyone but another black man to have been the perpetrator and they are usually known to both each other and the police before it happened.

If you're white and not tied to crime, you're FAR more likely to get killed in your own home than anywhere out in public.

 

[TheKingEast]

To many on the left, denial is a river in Africa. It's no surprise that there is a big problem with fatherlessness in the black community, (no, not all black dads are deadbeats) and until we stop being afraid of being called racists, and looking politically incorrect, we will never be able to even have a serious debate about the issue of gun crime and absent fathers in the black populace. How can any problem ever improve without admitting to it's existence? The more we stay the silent, the longer this will drag on. What is stopping us from having an intelligent conversation about a troubling truth? The feeling I get is that no one cares when one black thug kills another black thug, but when the victim is white or of another race, then we get worked up. Maybe if there was more emphasis on building and maintaining strong families, not just among black people, but everyone, we wouldn't be faced with such disturbing problems in our society? The impact a divorce or abandonment can have on a child is taken for granted, in my opinion. Everyone deserves to have a mother and father who love them and without that security and affection in one's life, destructive impulses can take over and lead to all sorts of delinquency. It's extremely rare for a child who grows up in a loving household to go on to lead a life of crime. But we live in such a care free society, these days, where people shack up like there's no tomorrow. Children are born out of wedlock, regularly, and too often are neglected. It's up to parents to be involved in their children's lives and fill them with positive characteristics, such as kindness and selflessness, but also to discipline them when they disobey, with a smack on the ass or hand.

The issue goes so far beyond absentee fathers it's not even funny. But I'll let you tell it.

I still have not received any hard, concrete stats yet. I've received "minority" stats and an assumption that those numbers are dominated by black thugs...an assumption which is ignorant in itself. Not to mention assuming black thugs are killing black thugs. Some are. But the victims quickly, and easily get lumped into the "thug" category when that simply isn't true.

I'm all for having a discussion about this. If you think things would be hunkey dorey if the absentee father issue was resolved, you are terribly naive.

But then I read this:

Common sense should be sufficient.

And know exactly where this conversation is going.

 

[Marko]

The issue goes so far beyond absentee fathers it's not even funny. But I'll let you tell it.

I never mentioned this as the cause, so please don't assume Four Rivers and I are singing from the same book. It certainly is an influencing factor in children who end up living in poverty, which leads to crime and other issues, but it's not the sole reason.

I still have not received any hard, concrete stats yet. I've received "minority" stats and an assumption that those numbers are dominated by black thugs...an assumption which is ignorant in itself. Not to mention assuming black thugs are killing black thugs. Some are. But the victims quickly, and easily get lumped into the "thug" category when that simply isn't true.

I've also never used the word thug, so please don't put it into my mouth.

You would have to have your head in the sand to not be aware that the majority of black men who get killed are killed by other black men. I am aware that cold hard stats cannot be produced to support this, but that is because the politically correct have prevented these stats from being used in the first place - not because it's not largely true. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part it is limited to certain cultural communities and certain crime groups.

Are you seriously sitting there and denying this? Are you suggesting that black men between the age of 16-36 are being killed by caucasians?

 

[Tewder]

Violence is engrained in certain cultures, it's how some people are taught/encouraged to resolve conflict. Unfortunately this also gets reinforced/glamourized now through certain forms of popular culture (oh for when numbers by Cole Porter topped the charts!). When you throw in social issues such as absentee fathers, discrimination that still unfortunately exists to a certain extent and the resulting collective feeling of marginalization you get problems... unfortunately this is a situation that is only going to get bigger not smaller.

... and yes, people who refuse to acknowledge the problem are seriously in denial.

 

[EMP1729]

Violence is engrained in certain cultures, it's how some people are taught/encouraged to resolve conflict. Unfortunately this also gets reinforced/glamourized now through certain forms of popular culture (oh for when numbers by Cole Porter topped the charts!). When you throw in social issues such as absentee fathers, discrimination that still unfortunately exists to a certain extent and the resulting collective feeling of marginalization you get problems... unfortunately this is a situation that is only going to get bigger not smaller.

... and yes, people who refuse to acknowledge the problem are seriously in denial.

Now, by "certain cultures" you mean that mobsters, gangsters, biker gangs, and organized crime instill violent tendencies into their members, right?

 

[AKS]

To many on the left, denial is a river in Africa. It's no surprise that there is a big problem with fatherlessness in the black community, (no, not all black dads are deadbeats) and until we stop being afraid of being called racists, and looking politically incorrect, we will never be able to even have a serious debate about the issue of gun crime and absent fathers in the black populace

You realize divorce rates are practically at 50%. Not only black people divorce. People of all races get divorces. It's not uncommon. If by your explanation, children who are fatherless go into crime. Half the society would be going around killing each other.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

But then I read this:

Common sense should be sufficient.

And know exactly where this conversation is going.

Yup. The common-sensers are back. Thomas Paine is rolling in his grave.

Look everyone: at least I hope we can all agree to only talk about race and statistics when we can use the discussion to demonize black people. I certainly don't want to see any mention of statistics that suggest blacks are underrepresented on the judicial bench, for example. Raising issues like that is, apparently, "reverse racism" (although don't you dare try to label its opposite as "racism").

 

[Marko]

Yup. The common-sensers are back. Thomas Paine is rolling in his grave.

Look everyone: at least I hope we can all agree to only talk about race and statistics when we can use the discussion to demonize black people. I certainly don't want to see any mention of statistics that suggest blacks are underrepresented on the judicial bench, for example. Raising issues like that is, apparently, "reverse racism" (although don't you dare try to label its opposite as "racism").

Sure, we can all agree that you'll bring up any red herring or strawman do evade conceding the obvious, which is under your nose. It's OK to admit it - it smells.

 

[Tewder]

Now, by "certain cultures" you mean that mobsters, gangsters, biker gangs, and organized crime instill violent tendencies into their members, right?

... and I suppose you are jumping to the conclusion that they are all white? Racist!