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I think it‘s highly unsusual to budget this kind of amounts before giving a formal go-ahead decision to a clearly defined project. As steep as our consultancy fees are, I don‘t see how you can possibly spend a billion Dollar in a single year without paying for actual physical assets (such as properties) and engineering works (such as any kind of construction activities).

The charitable view is that they have already a very precise idea of what they are going to do (and when and where) and that they have already consulted all relevant stakeholders, in which case the airtightness of these consultations would be staggering. The less charitable view is that the lack of details points at that they have nothing which would be remotely presentable at this point. You can imagine with which view I identify more…
I think this interview may shed some light on your question.

This probably went under the radar in the anglophone media but Radio Canada just posted a French language interview today with federal minister of transport on the progress of Alto. Basically, land property acquisitions will start very soon, likely the reason for the high budget.

In today’s REM DM line inauguration in Montreal, Carney also brought up Alto HSR and fast tracking the project and shorten project timeline.

Probably not a coincidence that both the PM and Minister for Transport all did media blitz on this topic on the very same day (one in Montreal and one in Quebec).

 
Hamilton could really use a new passenger rail corridor into the downtown core, though, even for GO Transit. Getting federal funding for it would help immensely.

Honestly sick of the dependency that municipalities and regional authorities have on the feds. They should be building transit themselves. If they can't make the business case work, maybe they should stop allowing sprawl.

The feds are finally building infrastructure that has national level impact. As they should have been doing for the last few decades.
 
Honestly sick of the dependency that municipalities and regional authorities have on the feds. They should be building transit themselves. If they can't make the business case work, maybe they should stop allowing sprawl.

The feds are finally building infrastructure that has national level impact. As they should have been doing for the last few decades.

With respect, Ontario municipalities have very few tax tools outside of property tax.

I agree with the theory of disentanglement, although, GO Transit is a provincial agency as it stands, and there is not a municipal level of government that covers its area.

That said.........if you provide every city with sales tax or income tax, you could absolutely do this...............

But very few governments around the world do this.........

The national gov't of France finances subway expansion in Paris, The Spanish gov't in Madrid and the UK gov't in London.

Equally the U.S. uses this same mechanism to finance transit expansion in NYC

Making this out as a uniquely Canadian phenomena isn't correct. And needless to say, its not uniquely Ontarian either.

Senior levels of gov't tend to resist sharing income-based taxes or sales-based taxes with cities/regions.

Even when they do........there are challenges..........whose sales tax should have paid for a subway expansion to Vaughan that Toronto did not support?

Who pays to operate that subway?

Its all more complex than you're making out.

I agree w/your theory...........but ragging on people for suggesting that the existing formula should fund their desired projects (assuming they otherwise make sense}, where there really is no other option on the table seems a bit much.
 
I think this interview may shed some light on your question.

This probably went under the radar in the anglophone media but Radio Canada just posted a French language interview today with federal minister of transport on the progress of Alto. Basically, land property acquisitions will start very soon, likely the reason for the high budget.

In today’s REM DM line inauguration in Montreal, Carney also brought up Alto HSR and fast tracking the project and shorten project timeline.

Probably not a coincidence that both the PM and Minister for Transport all did media blitz on this topic on the very same day (one in Montreal and one in Quebec).

Okay, so they stress the importance of intermodal connections (specifically at airports) and to build ALTO as fast as possible. Yet, they haven’t decided yet such essential „details“ like whether the train will stop at any airport…?

As Marco Chitti has pointed out in that article we just discussed, you have to make serious decisions very publicly before you can speed up any timeline. You can‘t start building the house before the architect has finished his plans (and the structural engineer has vetted them)…
 
With respect, Ontario municipalities have very few tax tools outside of property tax.

I agree with the theory of disentanglement, although, GO Transit is a provincial agency as it stands, and there is not a municipal level of government that covers its area.

That said.........if you provide every city with sales tax or income tax, you could absolutely do this...............

But very few governments around the world do this.........

The national gov't of France finances subway expansion in Paris, The Spanish gov't in Madrid and the UK gov't in London.

Equally the U.S. uses this same mechanism to finance transit expansion in NYC

Making this out as a uniquely Canadian phenomena isn't correct. And needless to say, its not uniquely Ontarian either.

Senior levels of gov't tend to resist sharing income-based taxes or sales-based taxes with cities/regions.

Even when they do........there are challenges..........whose sales tax should have paid for a subway expansion to Vaughan that Toronto did not support?

Who pays to operate that subway?

Its all more complex than you're making out.

I agree w/your theory...........but ragging on people for suggesting that the existing formula should fund their desired projects (assuming they otherwise make sense}, where there really is no other option on the table seems a bit much.
Seems to me that Ontario and Canada are funding all the recent subway expansion in Toronto. Though constitutionally it's outside of federal responsibility.
 
Hamilton could really use a new passenger rail corridor into the downtown core, though, even for GO Transit. Getting federal funding for it would help immensely.
What is wrong with the current corridor through west harbour. 1.5km isn't very far and is a reasonable distance for last mile solutions and local transit to cover. The existing corridor has lots of room to expand, follows an extremely straight and flat alignment to Niagara, running through most of the population centers along the way. If you are going to spend money increasing speed and service, upgrade the tracks to allow 100mph speeds and build a bayview junction bypass, and you'll have a high enough speed line for less than the cost of building a brand new corridor.
 
With respect, Ontario municipalities have very few tax tools outside of property tax.

Their property taxes are actually quite low. And they keep screwing young people with higher and higher transfer taxes. All to subsidize sprawl. I'm not sure why the feds should encourage this.

I agree with the theory of disentanglement, although, GO Transit is a provincial agency as it stands, and there is not a municipal level of government that covers its area.

That said.........if you provide every city with sales tax or income tax, you could absolutely do this...............

But very few governments around the world do this.........

As a federal taxpayer? Not my problem.

Provincial governments should sit down with municipalities and figure it out. There's nothing stopping the implementation of regional taxes or tolls. There's just no incentive to make difficult decisions when the feds will pay.

And while the feds do this, nationally important infrastructure like Corridor HSR gets ignored.
 
This probably went under the radar in the anglophone media but Radio Canada just posted a French language interview today with federal minister of transport on the progress of Alto. Basically, land property acquisitions will start very soon, likely the reason for the high budget.
Something I’ve noticed is the stark difference in media coverage of this project between French-language outlets and English-language outlets. Quebec media report on every small development and publish numerous opinion pieces, while with Ontario-based media it's crickets.
 
As steep as our consultancy fees are, I don‘t see how you can possibly spend a billion Dollar in a single year without paying for actual physical assets (such as properties) and engineering works (such as any kind of construction activities).
In terms of physical assets, what about the Toronto-Peterborough section? Isn't it leased to CP? Or the Quebec Gatineau shortline railway through Trois-Rivières? Could they have decided to acquire these lines early?

I take your point that they need to define the route and project goals before starting construction, but wouldn't it be easier to do those studies if they owned and operated the existing lines they were likely to need?
 
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In terms of physical assets, what about the Toronto-Peterborough section? Isn't it leased to CP? Or the Quebec Gatineau shortline railway through Trois Rivière? Could they have decided to acquire these lines early?
CPKC (Havelock Sub) and CFQG (Trois-Rivières Sub) would save considerable property tax payments, maintenance costs and operating costs (less labour costs resulting from drastically improved speed limits allowing much faster journey times). I don’t see them demanding hundreds of millions for having this burden of lightly used railway lines taken away from them, as long as they can still use it at a modest cost.
I take your point that they need to define the route and project goals before starting construction, but wouldn't it be easier to do those studies if they owned and operated the existing lines they were likely to need?
Sure, but that doesn’t explain why they need billions very soon…
 
Their property taxes are actually quite low. And they keep screwing young people with higher and higher transfer taxes. All to subsidize sprawl. I'm not sure why the feds should encourage this.

As a federal taxpayer? Not my problem.

Provincial governments should sit down with municipalities and figure it out. There's nothing stopping the implementation of regional taxes or tolls. There's just no incentive to make difficult decisions when the feds will pay.

And while the feds do this, nationally important infrastructure like Corridor HSR gets ignored.

I remain convinced that much of the federal cash flow is a self serving bit of politics and not an economics-driven or redistribution-agenda system delivering economic utility.
Ottawa is not taxing Fredericton or Kamloops to fund infrastructure in Ontario. Ontario is paying for that.... but having Ottawa do the taxation and then creating a political theatre where Premiers demand their "fair share" on behalf of their constituents, and federal politicians gain credit for distributing largesse to the masses, is just a game.
I would bet that a careful study would show that Ottawa does not redistribute wealth anywhere near as much as claimed - the money simply finds its way back to its place of origin.
My wisdom is that tax dollars are spent most effectively when the people who spend the money are the ones who face the taxpayer and justify the taxation. It's silly for a Premier (Ford is the classic example) to be claiming to "cut taxes" while demanding Ottawa fund things to a greater extent.
Like I say, the money Ford extracts from Ottawa is largely money he could raise himself, and if he did it would come out of the same sources, but with more transparency.

- Paul
 
Something I’ve noticed is the stark difference in media coverage of this project between French-language outlets and English-language outlets. Quebec media report on every small development and publish numerous opinion pieces, while with Ontario-based media it's crickets.
I absolutly noticed this too!

I wonder if its both the fact that ottawa montreal leg will be first that's pushing quebec intrest and that the govt wants quebec to know it is them doing it .


I imagine if clearly toronto and ottawa connection was first we'd be hearing more about it in English media.

Regardless agree with you and the previous poster that more transparency is required to get cross party generational support. I just would hate to see this project die at the alter of a future govt tax cutting measures, only to see the plan resurrected 4 years later under a new name, like this ontario govt did to many of its transit projects.
 
Something I’ve noticed is the stark difference in media coverage of this project between French-language outlets and English-language outlets. Quebec media report on every small development and publish numerous opinion pieces, while with Ontario-based media it's crickets.
Quebec media is still by-and-large publicly-owned and/or facing. There's not much public media left in Ontario and English Canada. What's left are culture war peddlers who don't have interest in building this country.
 
Are there expected to be more spin-off benefits for QC vs the rest of the country? I generally think of train building being something that they might benefit more from than would Ontario - but that may be incorrect. I have heard Ford's people saying this is not a priority for them.
 
I suspect we'd be hearing more about it in Ontario if Alto extended toward Waterloo and London. The current scope of the project is arguably proportionally-more impactful to Québec. It traverses the province's developed heartland, rather than sparsely populated Shield as in Ontario.
 

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