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syn
Senior Member
The wrapping is off at MBS
And from the mall side - with an escalator that takes you up into the sphere
This looks really cool, but I can't help but feel it's a poor use of space that doesn't fit in with Apple's talk of 'sustainability'.
afransen
Senior Member
When Apple talks sustainability, they mean their profits, not the environment. If they were committed to sustainability, they would support repairability of their products, particularly making battery replacement reasonably easy. Probably the number one reason why people upgrade phones...
daptive
Active Member
To play devils advocate here, replacing a battery costs $89 which is a very reasonable price for parts and labour and their track record of long term software support is second to none.
Don‘t doubt theres an argument to be made about repairing other parts but if batteries are, as you say, the number one reason for upgrades I would say that aspect is covered.
afransen
Senior Member
I would go beyond that and say there is much all phone makers could do to extend the life of the batteries in their devices, such as using a larger battery and keeping more of it in reserve and/or adding a charge limiter as some laptop manufacturers do. There isn't even an API for this, the best an app can do is notify you when your battery charge is above a certain level.
syn
Senior Member
There was a time when phones had removable batteries. Now we see headphone jacks becoming extinct, along with expandable Micro SD storage.
These companies could easily create phones that could last 5+ years, but that flexibility for the consumer leads to decreased profits for them.
That's why it's hard to take sustainability claims seriously, especially looking at this new store (even though I like it).
These companies could easily create phones that could last 5+ years, but that flexibility for the consumer leads to decreased profits for them.
That's why it's hard to take sustainability claims seriously, especially looking at this new store (even though I like it).
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
You can still send the phone in for battery replacement - and in this day and age how many people actually need to upgrade their storage with a SD card - as most devices already had sufficient storage to start? People who buy replacement devices buy them more often than not because it is chic (especially if the cost is internalized in the phone plan), not because they can't replace the battery themselves.
Also I can see the trend of device upgrade slowing as the incremental improvement in smartphone technology slows down (just think the improvement in say the first 3 generations of the iphone to the last 3 - the incremental improvement is much smaller).
AoD
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zang
Senior Member
I've never understood the whole "replaceable battery" argument for modern phones. Originally, they were replaceable because you'd be lucky to get an hour of talk time, period (Motorola's Star-Tac could barely manage 45 outside of a lab). A replaceable battery means a larger phone and potentially more batteries ending up in landfill as opposed to recycled responsibly. Internal batteries now are often soft-packed (safer and smaller) and shaped to fit vacant space instead of neat, hard rectangular items that just fit into a "slot". In order to maintain the waterproof/resistant aspect of most major phones now, any replaceable battery would need its own sealed compartment and internals would need to be designed around that, adding to size. That compartment needs to be able to withstand repeated openings/closings and the electrical contacts need to maintain constant contact and require a lot more fault tolerance than a non-replaceable.
All in all, the tradeoff means a bigger phone with more points of failure and generally a compromise of some sort. Most people don't want that (see the failure of modular phone designs by Google, LG and Lenovo, and dismal sales of Doogee, Fairphone, Shift Phone, etc). What people *think* they want doesn't always translate into what they're willing to buy.
afransen
Senior Member
Samsung S4-S6 had removable batteries, but it was not necessary to remove them for day to day use (except if you were a very heavy user). Most people use external battery banks now.
syn
Senior Member
Yes, you can send a phone in for replacement - but how often will people do that? What I was getting at is that phone companies don't make it easy to extend the longevity of your device.
I can understand no SD cards in mid-tier devices, but it's still very valuable for power users that gravitate towards flagship phones.
@zang I don't agree with you about all older phones - a Galaxy S2 would easily get full day of usage on one charge.
You certainly have a point about structural integrity, but I'd counter that innovations in industrial design and implementation over the past decade should allow for the removal batteries and a high degree of integrity.
A Galaxy S10 Plus (released 2 years ago) has a headphone jack and Micro SD card slot while still maintaining IP68 water resistance.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
If you an afford a flagship phone, you are likely to get more than sufficient storage. As to battery replacement - just how often do you need to do that nowadays? once every 4, 5 years? I think those who want to replace it will; those who want won't either way nowadays.
As to the headphone jack - not missing it one bit.
AoD
syn
Senior Member
Flagship phones generally sell to specific kinds of users - the kinds that could potentially use a lot of storage. Given the cost of the phone and how little it impacts other features (and how quickly storage can fill up), it seems like a no-brainer.
In any case it's no surprise - planned obsolescence has been Apple's MO for a long time. No surprise other companies are jumping on board.
Apple products are built better than their competitors in pretty much every category, so people tend to use them longer than the more disposable products built by their competitors. After you've got your product though, technological innovation continues, it's the nature of the beast that at some point you'll need to replace it, no matter whom you've bought from. Apple also leads the industry in recyclability, so you can send your old product in to be stripped down for the reuse of its component materials… so what are you going on about exactly?
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syn
Senior Member
Apple products being better built is highly debatable. There are a lot of high quality options out there.
What technological innovation is taking place that would render a three year old phone irrelevant? Smartphones have kind of hit a wall in that department. Better specs each year, but they basically do the same thing.
That's the point I'm making here. Apple (and other smartphone makers) are not introducing 'innovation' that extends the life of your phone (or makes it easy for you to do so). It's just the opposite. In fact, Apple lost a lawsuit for intentionally slowing older phones, and they're at the top of the industry when it comes to practices like changing connection standards to push adoption of new accessories, etc.
I get they're companies that have to make money & increase profits. Ultimately they'd be happy if everyone upgraded every year. Unfortunately that completely is at odds with sustainability goals.
Survey after survey after survey shows that Apple products are built better, perform more consistently than their competitors do, and they last longer because of that. My iPhone 6S lasted six years, and my new 11 Pro has so much more powerful of a battery that I only have to charge it every second day, and it's not showing any dropoff yet. I once went swimming with my iPhone 6S, so that necessitated a new battery at one point. If I were to swim with my 11 Pro, it would be fine as the eliminated headphone jack (has not been an issue for me) means the new phone is far more watertight.
You claim Apple invented planned obsolescence, only now being adopted by their competitors. That boggles the mind. Competition begets innovation which begets eventual obsolescence… and that's the story for both hardware and software. Hardware Company A produces something fantastic based on the latest innovations, and Hardware Companies B, C, D, and E, etc. are then driven to try to beat them with their next products. Because the phones are now more powerful, Software Company F then adds a pile of bells and whistles to its app, taking advantage of the processing power on the new phones… but the app now runs more slowly on the older phones, and might not run at all on the older models. Meanwhile, no company has done a better job of releasing system software updates for older models than Apple, meaning that a 6 year old model of iPhone will still be able to be updated, something that's been far sketchier in the Android world.
Similar to my iPhone experience, my MacBook Pro is working very well, now in its 7th year, because of the quality construction and system software that's kept up to date. That's twice the average lifespan of a Windows laptop. In the electronic consumables world, Apple ain't the problem.
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